George Takei 
🏳️🌈🖖🏽I spent my childhood inside of American concentration camps. I know one when I see one. And that is what ICE is building.
Glyph
M Schommer
ᴮᵉⁿ ᴿᵒʸᶜᵉVOTE IN THE PRIMARIES@musevg @glyph @georgetakei @petrillic
obama is arguing for effective action against fascists
how do you read that as bowing to fascists?
@benroyce @musevg @georgetakei @petrillic personally I would not read this as either “bowing” or “effective advice” but rather offering the same terrible analysis that has lead to a steeply declining popularity of the democratic party. what makes it ironic here is that the putative advice here is that you shouldn’t use mean language to criticize the right; one such “scold” might be to accurately call their concentration camps “concentration camps” for example
@glyph @musevg @georgetakei @petrillic
well said and agreed
i read it as obama asking for no infighting, because the problem with the left is we shoot at each other and we don't shoot at the right
but perhaps i read that wrong and obama is asking people not to scold the right, which is indeed terrible advice
by the same token, nobody fucking cares about the democratic party. we just take it over with real leftists. in such a way, the entire topic of "the democratic party" is a red herring
Världens bästa Kille™@glyph @petrillic @benroyce @georgetakei @musevg regardless of what you think about Obama’s politics: The man knows how to sell.
That is what the left needs to learn. And scolding, generally, isn’t the way. Hopes and dreams and agency and dignity are.
@thelovebing @glyph @petrillic @georgetakei @musevg
i personally believe we need to ramp up the scolding of MAGA
not taking a strong stand against MAGA dampens all enthusiasm on the left
however, the infighting, the scolding within the left out of toxic idealism definitely needs to end
@benroyce @glyph @petrillic @georgetakei @musevg
The way I see it rethoric is a tool. Tools should be chosen and used according to strategy.
"Taking a strong stance" isn't synonomous with calling people assholes. I'm not saying you shouldn't think they're assholes (obviously they are), but saying it isn't necessarily the best way to win. King, Gandhi, Mandela didn't. And their stances were pretty strong, don't you think?
@thelovebing @glyph @petrillic @georgetakei @musevg
you have a pop culture impression of these leaders
the british engaged with the "nonviolent" gandhi because violence from others was waiting. they didn't want to deal with the violent option. dealing with gandhi made the colonizer look magnanimous, and the violent option faded from memory. but it was there
if there was no violent option waiting, gandhi would not have succeeded
likewise, there's no MLK without Malcolm X
and they knew:
@thelovebing @glyph @petrillic @georgetakei @musevg
if you think you are going to face fascists and sing kumbaya and that is going to succeed you are a fool
they'll just machine gun you while laughing
unless
there's someone like me waiting in the wings to put fear in the fascist's hearts. then they will listen to you. *only* because they otherwise have to listen to me
in this way, you will succeed with your approach
but do not lie to yourself that your attitude alone succeeds in life
@thelovebing @glyph @petrillic @georgetakei @musevg
on the flip side, i understand the success of this good cop/ bad cop method
so my point to you is not to shut you up. if i exist alone, then it will be very grim and there will be much suffering and success would be in doubt
so i need you as an option much as you need me
continue in your kumbaya singing approach
i won't scorn you
i need you, the pleasant face
but, again, do not lie to yourself that you don't need me
be smart about this
Alex@rtnVFRmedia Suffolk UK@benroyce @thelovebing @glyph @petrillic @georgetakei @musevg
I'm British Asian, my mums side of the family are Tamil Indians from Malaysia and I can confirm with Mohandas Gandhi this was exactly what happened.
There was also a significant portion of Indians who were prepared to align with the Axis (Germans and Japanese), so the British accepting Gandhi's demands helped combat this problem, but without that threat of violence (during an actual full on global war) he might not have had as much immediate success.
Also the fiasco of losing Singapore/Malaya to the Japanese and the British literally running away is a big factor in the further collapse of the Empire in SE Asia..
@benroyce @vfrmedia @glyph @petrillic @georgetakei @musevg
You'll missing the point.
Think Zelenskij. He gets it. Warm. Humorous. Very serious, of course, and angry. But friendly. Likeable. Principled. Dignified.
Popular.
And in the end the most popular guy/idea usually wins.
@benroyce @vfrmedia @glyph @petrillic @georgetakei @musevg
And yes, against overwhelming odds the popular guy may still lose. Of course.
But the unpopular guy is certain to do it.
This is not rocket science.
@thelovebing @vfrmedia @glyph @petrillic @georgetakei @musevg
ok but i'm not zelensky
i'm a hothead loudmouth
do you see some sort of political future for me? that's very flattering but i don't think so
so i will continue to call morons, morons
frankly, i have nothing but withering disgust for "polite society"
"polite society" will let a malicious lie pass if said serenely. and clutch their pearls if someone says "fuck"
fuck that fucking nightmare existence of fakery
@benroyce @vfrmedia @glyph @petrillic @georgetakei @musevg
You are still missing the point, I'm guessing because you're too angry to be smart. Or maybe too interested in being right to get it right.
And that is, I believe, the exact reason progressives don't progress so well.
Gotta have a strategy. Gotta combine (and this is where so, so many fail) bone hard principles with pragmatism.
It's not easy.
@thelovebing @vfrmedia @glyph @petrillic @georgetakei @musevg
we did what you said already, and MAGA did not care
in fact, the noble approach you refer to was simply used against us and they advanced anyways
the high road does not work
everyone on the left in the usa now is screaming for a forceful stand, and are disgusted with your approach
sorry, but you're full of shit
and i envy your charmed naive life free of this sort of adversity. cherish it. but don't lecture others from luxury
@benroyce @vfrmedia @glyph @petrillic @georgetakei @musevg
What the fuck are you on about? No, you didn't. Or if you did you did it so damn badly it didn't show across the pond. If you had you wouldn't even be in this situation. The right wing fuck have (in their own way, which can't be our way) for decades. And in that regard we have the exact same situation here. I wrote about it back in 2010, possibly even 2005.
Strategy, or lack thereof, is how we got here.
@thelovebing @vfrmedia @glyph @petrillic @georgetakei @musevg
wow there's a lot of "fuck"s there, VBK
you should learn to take the high road and not give in to your baser instincts. control yourself
I'm guessing because you're too angry to be smart. Or maybe too interested in being right to get it right
🤣 🤣 🤣
@thelovebing @vfrmedia @glyph @petrillic @georgetakei @musevg
got my profile my confused friend
read the quote i have placed there by william blake
"the tygers of wrath are wiser than the horses of instruction"
contemplate the wisdom therein
@benroyce @vfrmedia @glyph @petrillic @georgetakei @musevg
Yeah. But tigers are almost extinct.
@benroyce @vfrmedia @glyph @petrillic @georgetakei @musevg
Ok. Good luck to you. I'm sure it'll work out great.
@thelovebing @vfrmedia @glyph @petrillic @georgetakei @musevg
it might not work out great
but i'm going to fight
and i'm not going to fight with one arm tied behind my back
and i'm not going to lie to myself that it's a fight that's won with pleasant fake smiles