GinaFeb 11

Our Dutch gov delegation had a great work visit in @landesregierung and learned a lot about Schleswig-Holstein's #opensource journey. 🔥

These lessons will be integrated into our own #digitalsovereignty strategy. We'll also keep collaborating with SH, Germany and France to work towards a sovereign workspace.

Thanks again @digitalhubsh for organizing!! 🇩🇪🥨

Show threadAxelFeb 14
@Gina @landesregierung @digitalhubsh @bert_hubert

20000 work hours. Sounds a lot. Let’s give it a generous rate: €100 per hour. Then the man-hour cost for the transition is 2 million €: peanuts for a government and mere dents in the annual invoice of the big tech office license.
Show threadmalteFeb 14
@axel @Gina @landesregierung @digitalhubsh @bert_hubert 100€ is pretty average, though, maybe even lowballing 😬
Show threadMarcus MüllerFeb 14

@malte very much lowballing it, and not because developers are greedy, but because health, unemployment insurance and retirement funds need to be paid, and because these 20000 do not include the cost of infrastructure for hiring, paying and managing the developers.

@axel @Gina @landesregierung @digitalhubsh @bert_hubert

Show threadmalteFeb 14
@funkylab @axel @Gina @landesregierung @digitalhubsh @bert_hubert idk, i think the whole it-industry is a bit full of itself, and 100€ is an amount a social worker could only dream about, on the other hand i also like to use my leverage to negotiate other people's wages *up* ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Show threadbert hubert 🇺🇦🇪🇺🇺🇦Feb 14
@malte @funkylab @axel @Gina @landesregierung @digitalhubsh these are the costs, not what someone receives. Which is a lot less. 100 euros/hour is more or less what Dutch government thinks the total costs are of an average worker. Not sure I agree btw.
Show threadmalteFeb 14

@bert_hubert @funkylab @axel but for freelancers those numbers would be the same, no?

either way, after having stated that the it-industry is a bit full of it, i feel i also need to state that we need to get all these wage-georges (aka billionaires) to cough up all these wages they swallowed up in their sleep, so social workers, teachers, plumbers, farmers, and healthcare workers can get a raise.

Show threadMarcus MüllerFeb 14
@malte @bert_hubert @axel need to be slightly to significantly higher, because the freelancer has to account for the cost of unemployed lifetime in his calculation, whereas an employer hasn't got to.
Show threadAxelFeb 14

@funkylab @malte @bert_hubert
I have been a freelancer for 15 years and I’m quite content with a €100 (excl. VAT) rate. Yes I pay insurances and my pension from that as well.

I don’t know many civil servants who earn a salary of €130000+, but then I don’t know many civil servants who work tax-free for the EU.

Show threadMarcus Müller

@axel @malte @bert_hubert yep, things do look nice financially if you're employed by say the Joint Research Center of the EU Commission, for example.

An hourly salary of > 30€ isn't rare though, so I really don't think you're overbilling.

Feb 14 at 2:59pmPhanpy
Show threadMarcus MüllerFeb 14

@axel @malte @bert_hubert why I say that: TV-L (union rate of public servants of the federal states), group E13 (>= Master in their job), level 6 (at least 5 jobs on the job or a comparably responsible position), 40 h/week full-time:
https://oeffentlicher-dienst.info/c/t/rechner/tv-l/allg?id=tv-l-2027&g=E_15%DC&s=6&zv=VBL&z=100&zulage=&stj=2026&stkl=1&lst4f=&r=0&zkf=0&pvk=0&kk=17%2C05%25

111,218.21 €/year pre-taxes for 2026 and 61,515.55 € post taxes for an unmarried person with no dependents.

TV-L (neu 2025) grants 30 days of paid vacation, so that's 224 working days in 2026, making the salary 62.06€ pre-, 34.32€ post-tax.

Gehaltsrechner Öffentlicher Dienst

Show threadAxelFeb 14

@funkylab @malte @bert_hubert

So assuming a EU, TV-L group 13, level 6 is a well paid public servant, earning €34 post tax, how is €100 ‘lowballing it’?

I guess governments are too used to paying overpriced IT corporations, adding multiple layers of management cruft, instead of directly finding qualified IT personnel. Either as a job or freelancing.

Just my €0,02 opinion of course.

Show threadMarcus MüllerFeb 14
@axel @malte @bert_hubert I'm assuming your 100€/h includes no taxes, right? So, post-taxes and insurances, you're left with a relatively modest amount more than the employee made. (I don't know really how much you make post-tax, post health+care+unemployment+retirement+disability insurances; but my guess is that at the end of your career, you might have more flexible ways to spend your retirement, not necessarily significantly more money; and that's assuming things go well for you).
Show threadMarcus MüllerFeb 14
@axel @malte @bert_hubert is that still good money? Sure! Is that saying you're reimbursing yourself for the risk you're taking, and for the fact that if you need to slack off for some reason (family, health, age) you'll make less money?
I *honestly* don't know, and would tend to say "no".
Show threadAxelFeb 14

@funkylab @malte @bert_hubert

Indeed; flexible in insurance, flexible in pension and flexible in business expenses. Also flexible in choosing clients and when to work ;-)

Show threadMarcus MüllerFeb 14
@axel @malte @bert_hubert "leitende Funktionen" tend to be in higher groups, or Beamte; it's good, but not "top centil" pay
Show threadmalteFeb 14
@axel @funkylab @bert_hubert 100€ is lowballing it, because people usually are embarassed when they can "only" offer me 150€/hour 🤷‍♀️ and like i'm not a specialist in *anything* 🤷‍♀️🤷‍♀️🤷‍♀️
Show threadMarcus MüllerFeb 14
@malte @axel @bert_hubert what service do you offer?
Show threadmalteFeb 14
@funkylab @axel @bert_hubert sysops and broadly ✨it consultancy✨ 😬
Show threadMarcus MüllerFeb 14
@malte @axel @bert_hubert so, broadly speaking, comparable to https://recruiting.arbeitsagentur.de/ba-karriere/stellensuche/index.html#/posting/55859747 in skillset? That's "TE1", so ~92 k€/a (after ~18 years of doing it), so 52.66€/h for an employee. Yeah, factor of 2.5–3, the usual factor for freelancing.
Bundesagentur für Arbeit - Karriereportal