John RegehrFeb 9

something I've been thinking about is how, when I teach a class, I tell the TAs to never, ever touch the keyboard when they're helping a student with an assignment. not even once! because as soon as someone else is driving, it becomes real easy for the student to stop thinking and just let things happen.

kind of like what happens when we use a coding assistant.

Show thread✧✦Catherine✦✧
@regehr i wonder how much of this is because students don't really want to be there, and how much is because they don't (yet?) know how to zealously fight for understanding
Feb 9 at 5:16amWeb
Show threadkulupu jynFeb 9

@whitequark @regehr well I think it’s also quite easy to overestimate how well you understand something if you’re not forced to recreate it from scratch

kinda like that study where people knew what a bicycle looked like but not how to draw one

Show threadwiedmamaFeb 9
@jyn @whitequark @regehr Regarding coding assistant: I guess this is only true if you assume the assistant is better than you.
Show threadkulupu jynFeb 9
@wiedmama @whitequark @regehr I don’t like the framing of programming as a linear scale from bad to good. AI can legitimately be good at creating prototypes while being bad at ongoing maintenance. being better than a single person in a single dimension isn’t that hard.
Show threadkulupu jynFeb 9
@wiedmama @whitequark @regehr also like, half the way you get good at programming is by struggling with problems until you understand them better
Show threadaburka 🫣Feb 9
@jyn @wiedmama @whitequark @regehr ding ding ding
Show thread✧✦Catherine✦✧Feb 9
@jyn @regehr that would fall under the second half of my question
Show threadkulupu jynFeb 9
@whitequark @regehr I don’t disagree, but by that standard I think very few people in the world live up to your standard of “zealous”
Show thread✧✦Catherine✦✧Feb 9
@jyn @regehr I mean, yeah
Show threadJohn RegehrFeb 9
@whitequark for sure there's a lot going on!
Show threadSam StephensFeb 9
@regehr @whitequark I've encountered this as a senior developer mentoring juniors who really are motivated. They learned so much more hands on, I just had to swallow my frustrations, be patient, and not take over.
Show threadAled;cdFeb 9

@whitequark @regehr in my experience as a TA (experimental physics) it's mostly the second; yes there are students who don't want to be there but there are also plenty who do. The problem is that troubleshooting is a skill you need to learn and practice, and that's something that they've had basically no exposure to until they get to their first intro lab.

In my department this is well understood to be basically the entire point of the intro lab and we very intentionally make the instructions less and less detailed as the year goes on

Show threadShae ErissonFeb 12

@whitequark I went back to university at age 38 because I *zealously* wanted a bachelor's degree to partially tame my impostor syndrome.

I was older and more experience than my instructors, but they knew so much I did not.

I got my first instructor fired, learned as fast as I could, graduated three years later, and that CS department was much improved by the time I left.