mccFeb 4

RE: https://mastodon.social/@mcc/116004809011481588

Anyway the reason I roll my eyes at most of the discussion about "AI", "AGI", "the singularity", "intelligence self-improvement feedback loop" is that like, it happened, it's already happened, it's been happening, it's us. We're it.

Kurzweil talked about lusting for a machine that can make him smarter. I have that, it's a piece of paper. I can write math on a piece of paper and solve problems I can't solve in my head. I can upload all the information in the world directly into my brain (books).

Show threadmccFeb 4
What "singularity" fanatics actually want is to not have to put in the work
Show thread✧✦Catherine✦✧Feb 5
@mcc I don't think this is inherently bad. for example, I'm unwilling to put in the work of learning hundreds of human languages, so I'm using machine translation tools. I'm unwilling to put in the work of writing letters (or punching through punchcards) so I type on a keyboard.
Show threadmccFeb 5
@whitequark I'm putting hundreds of hours into learning a new human language and what I believe is that when I am done I will be able to read texts in that language, which is not the case with the machine translation tools. Source: I have tried the machine translation tools and they weren't shit
Show thread✧✦Catherine✦✧Feb 5

@mcc the RoI of learning Chinese to read poetry (at which machine translation tools suck) is very different from RoI of learning Chinese to read another stuipd datasheet for something you pulled out of e-waste (at which machine translation tools are quite good or at least sufficient because it is so formulaic)

source: I have tried the machine translation tools and they were the shit

Show thread✧✦Catherine✦✧Feb 5
@mcc anyway, any complaint that boils down to "they aren't willing to put in the work" is just Protestant work ethic shrink-wrapped in a post and I think that is corrosive
Show threadSnoopJFeb 5

@whitequark @mcc I hate the cliche of "word calculator" but I think machine translation definitely fits that bill when you just want a sense of what the text says (rather than the ability to read it as a native)

I think part of the reason the field has survived the rise of slopware is because it existed long beforehand, so "a worse way to do it" wasn't as attractive of an option and specialist models (Bergamot) are still dominating that use-case.

I do think a lot about how one of the models popular with Enthusiasts once gave me a very detailed explanation of why 私 is a more polite "word" than わたし. Very accurate reproduction of a guy from the 2000s who knows absolutely fucking nothing about Japanese.

Show thread✧✦Catherine✦✧Feb 5

@SnoopJ @mcc yeah. if I want a translation that is actually good I will simply pay a human translator (something I've done before!) for a result incomparable with either machine translation or learning the language myself. but I would only do this for source material I like. I engage a lot with source material that is adversarial: where it only exists as an obstacle towards something I want (e.g. turning e-waste into not e-waste).

There is absolutely no way I will grace such material with hundreds of hours of my lifetime.

Show thread✧✦Catherine✦✧Feb 5
@SnoopJ @mcc the final point of extending this thought is: my issue with the group described as 'singularity fanatics' above is less "they don't want to put in the work" (not wanting to put in the work is the root of most large scale social advancements), and more "they view literally everyone else as an obstacle or means to an end". I think that's a problem. I think the work ethic thing is the opposite of a problem
Show threadDamien de Lemeny
@whitequark @SnoopJ @mcc sorry to hijack, but I'm curious about this. What large scale social advancements stemmed from "not wanting to put in the work" (as opposed to not wanting to be robbed of your work, to take health or death risks or wanting a fair compensation) ? That formulation goes against my historical understanding of labor and I welcome a challenging point of view.
Feb 5 at 1:18pmWeb