CharlesDarwinPentagon warns Scouts: Ban girls or we will pull your funding
theprogressivist The real enemy to America all along…Girl Scouts and their cookies. /s
Lasherz
ThePantserGS are just cookie dealers that sometimes go camping. Between my two kids each being one or both programs the GS spend 70% of their meetings and time together talking about and planning cookie sales. The Scouts go on twice as many camping trips and only fund raise around Christmas. But one kid whom is in the more camp group is in the richer areas troop meanwhile the GS is in the lower income area so they tend to just try to make money.
My point in GS is for the kids you want to someday be in sales and the Scouts are for the kids who want to experience the outdoors.
Heh, then I guess Cub Scouts are popcorn dealers that sometimes go camping. :)
A big part of the problem with girl scouts, in my opinion, is that a lot of the time the troops are kind of temporary.
Usually group of girls and their parents (usually moms, who may or may not have any scouting experience of their own) start up a troop, more-or-less from scratch when the girls are brownie or daisy-aged, and then that’s pretty much it, they don’t really do any ongoing recruitment, it stays just those same girls until they all either quit or age out of the program and then the troop dissolves.
Meanwhile, the (boy scout) troop I came up through is going to be celebrating its 100 year anniversary in a year or two. They have a garage full of troop gear, money in the bank, and decades of institutional knowledge of how to be a scout and how to run a scout program. We had one or two kids whose or father and I think even grandfather had earned their eagle from the same troop, the current scoutmaster was in the troop a couple years before me and his kids are in it now, the one before him was already scoutmaster when I started before his kid was old enough to join and stayed on for a few years after his son aged out, and every year we got a new batch of kids joining, some years more than others sure, but there was always new blood coming in
So there’s a lot more continuity and something like generational wealth going on with the BSA. Girl scouts generally need to hit the cookies and fundraising hard because they’re often kind of starting from 0 (not that there isn’t some valid criticism about how the cookie sales work and how the money is distributed and used, but I don’t know enough about that to really go into it)
And as far as recruitment, boy scouts made it really easy to find a troop, there’s a website you can go on and find all of the ones near you, so if your kid just suddenly wanted to join, or if you moved and needed to find a new one it was dead simple to look that up. At least at the time when I was in, girl scouts didn’t really have anything similar, unless you were already in the know about when and where the existing troops met you were kind of SOL if you wanted to join one. I remember one of our leaders talking about some sort of community event they were trying to put together, they had some representatives from a couple other local organizations and other scout troops and such coming, and they wanted to see if any of the local girl scout troops would want to take part, but he just couldn’t get in touch with any of them, couldn’t find contact info, when he reached out to their local council they basically stonewalled him
And unfortunately just by the nature of it usually being the moms who are the involved parents with girl scouts as opposed to usually the dads, with boy scouts there’s often a bit less outdoorsy knowledge to build on (some of my best hiking/camping/fishing buddies are women, but until I was the one who started inviting them out, a lot of them had never done much that kind of thing, and unfortunately that’s not a terribly uncommon situation, whereas guys tend to be more likely to grow up doing that sort of thing with their dads)
All that said, I’ve known a decent amount of girl scouts, and while a lot of them got stuck with shitty programs, there were a handful that actually probably went harder than we did in boy scouts. The odds aren’t exactly in your favor of ending up in one of those girl scout troops, but with the right parents, kids, and resources they actually can put on a really good outdoor program (and their campgrounds are usually really nice as well) they just don’t have the systems in place to make sure that all of their troops are able to do that to the same extent boy scouts can.
This is an extremely well thought-out comment. As someone with experience in both camps (literally), you hit the nail on the head here.
Yeah, and I also think that the sort of temporary nature of most girl scout troops also hampers, what I think, was one of the most key parts of the boy scout program- the idea of “boys teaching boys” (I suppose they may phrase it more like “kids teaching kids” now)
The older kids in the troop took a really active role in running the program. Often we’d pretty much just get sort of a list of bullet points from the adult leaders for what we needed to accomplish and it was up to us to figure out how to make it happen, put together a plan, delegate responsibilities, and get the younger kids up to speed, while the adults stood by off to the side somewhere pretty much just making sure we didn’t do anything too stupid.
Not all of us were exactly natural-born leaders, but because of that sort of organizational structure we all kind of learned some passable leadership skills.
But without that ongoing recruitment and the kids of different ages being active in the troop together, that kind of youth leadership can’t really happen to the same extent
I’ve also heard some things, and I have no clue how true they are, about their adult leader training being a little excessive, like there’s separate classes you’re supposed to take before you do pretty much anything, like you need to take the training before you can go on a camping trip, and then there’s a second training for if you want to have a campfire, and another if you want to go on a hike, etc. and I believe those are all trainings you would need to pay for
So if that’s true (and it may not be, this is half-rememered info from probably about 2 decades ago) that does put a pretty high barrier of entry for a lot of people.
I was attending the informational sessions from both GirlScouts and Scouts while trying to make the call for our daughter and the tone shift was jarring, where GirlScouts it was all “we’re going to sell cookies and learn important things you need to know as a girl” and became honestly kinda sexist and just tried to badmouth Scouts when I asked how it compares. Meanwhile Scouts it was just “look we’re going to go hiking and camping and make a race car to race and have fun!” (and had the exact same answer when I asked how Scouts compares to GirlScouts)
So yeah we ultimately went with the more inclusive option that didn’t recoil at the idea of her wanting her brother who she adores to join and didn’t turn to badmouthing the alternative when asked how they compare. And guess what, she’s having a blast and it feels weird that it was ever a gendered thing in the first place!
Girl Scouts is terfy af, too.
The Girl Scouts let trans girls in though?
Scouting America teaches kids how to be soldiers. Girl Scouts teaches girls how to be ruthless boardroom headhunters.
So really, the difference is minimal.
You sure?
smithsonianmag.com/…/boy-scouts-will-allow-transg…
I do agree GS has far better messaging and consistency on it though.
Well . . . Yeah. In the article it says
By allowing transgender scouts, the organization now joins the Girl Scouts of America, an unaffiliated scouting group, in its policies toward gender identity. In 2015, Girl Scouts USA confirmed that it indeed welcomes transgender scouts—a position that was challenged openly when a donor pledged $100,000 with the stipulation that it not support transgender girls. The organization turned down the donation, set up a campaign called “Girl Scouts Is For Every Girl,” and then raised more than $338,000 from donors supportive of transgender girl scouts. Girl Scouts USA’s official policy is that, though troop placement depends on the best interests of the child, kids who are recognized by their family and live in a community as a girl can enroll as Girl Scouts.
I guess they are arguing the Scouts arent educational or work. As both work and education have laws banning discrimination based on sex if they receive federal funding.
Fascists don’t make a case. They just use force. In their view, argument and reason are for the weak, and the weak should not live.
To the public that’s true, but in court they send some poor sucker out to argue the dumbest spaghetti on the wall points ever only to be consistently admonished for saying things that imply they have no clue what the law is.
Lots of the point is in the public though, they quietly lose constantly, and to the extent the court proceedings matter it’s akin to SLAPP suits.
I mean… they aren't either. Not in this context.
The grade schoolers aren’t employees of Scouts, nor are they students; they are members. Scouts has allowed women as volunteers and employees for as long as I can remember.
Girls have only been allowed to participate in Scouts and Cub Scout for less than 10 years. It was not due to legal requirements that it started, and it still isn’t fully integrated. Charter organizations (local community organizations that sponsor individual units) determine whether their units will be for boys, girls, or combined.
Charter organizations (local community organizations that sponsor individual units) determine whether their units will be for boys, girls or both.
That’s the real kicker here. If some babies are still so butthurt about it when they bring their boys to scouts, they can seek out a boys-only troop if they so wish.
But that kind of option simply isn’t good enough for the jackass culture warriors, I guess. And I bet most of the most salty about it don’t even have kids in Scouts - like Hegseth. God forbid girls from some other family have the option to join Scouts, because he’s angry about a thing.
Fuck these people.
The relationship between Scouting and the Pentagon is also codified in law, which states that the Pentagon must seek a waiver from Congress if the military intends to cut its support, and explain why giving that assistance “would be detrimental to the national security of the United States”.
I love how they tag this minor detail onto the very end where they have to publicly justify it to congress rather than just doing whatever autocratic whim they feel like.
Why does the military have anything to do with scouts?
It’s not really teaching Boys to Scout, it’s a program that is Scouting for Boys who are likely to do well in situations similar to the military, albeit a less modern one than exists today.
If you get eagle scout you get a small raise when you join the military, same as if you had an associates degree.
Scouts does do a really good job of preparing kids for the military if they so choose. Many of the hard and soft skills it teaches are very military-esque. Or put another way, I was chatting with another parent who’s oldest just joined the military at 18 and they said the training is just like scouts and credited scouts with preparing them well for the military
I was a scout, nah. We camped and helped old ladies at nursing homes.
Sort of depends on your troop. As a young teenager we had to endure winter survivalist training which included building usable sleeping quarters in the sub-zero snow and spending the night in them, by yourself. Yes you could come back to the main building but you failed at the training if you did. Actual chance of freezing. They gave you a styrofoam cup half full of chili but otherwise you were on your own for sustenance too, including water. It did give me a sense of independence, but also a fear of the cold.
HuntressHimboBeen through scouting and boy does it have some issues, but its also valuable. Wish we could trash the institutions as they are and replace them with a unified education org. Scouting is great as a learn about the outdoors and leadership education, not so much as an alternative to tying kids hands to the bed frame to stop them masturbating (iykyk).
Hopefully this won’t be what kills scouts, hopefully the org will have a more phoenix style burn and rise form the ashes renewed and better
opefully the org will have a more phoenix style burn and rise form the ashes renewed and better
As someone who was in Scouts not long before they started imploding from the scandals and now has a kid in Scouts, I really do get the feeling that the modernization they’ve been tackling has been very much akin to this. Just feels like a much healthier organization which isn’t actively trying to pretend its still the 1960s
yea, because when you hang around with and work with and collaborate with girls from a young age, then you might start to see them as something other than property/servants/fuckholes/birthing cows. god fucking forbid our poor innocent angel boys are subject to such hideous equality
Just going to comment here to avoid some misconceptions. Apologies for the long comment. Tl;Dr, Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts are not part of the same parent organization.
Scouting America is basically a rebrand for Boy Scouts of America. The rebrand happened when they began to admit girls into the program, like 8 years ago or do. Many people get confused thinking that Boy Scouts of America and Girl Scouts USA are partner organizations when they are not. They are two independent programs with different missions and values. For example, Boy Scouts has maintained Declaration of Religious Principle which requires to members to sign an agreement that states that they believe in some sort of higher power. They also include a Duty to God in their Scout Oath. Girl Scouts on the other hand is a secular organization that does not require a belief in any higher power but does encourage members to explore their own faith if they have one.
The decision for BSA to admit girls was a controversial one even within the organization, but their numbers have been flagging for a while and they felt that allowing girls in would help. There was also a more progressive wing within the organization that recognized how discriminatory this was and wanted to reform the organization. Joining Boy Scouts, with an organizational emphasis on nature, citizenship, and skill mastery, would be a different experience for girls than Girl Scouts, which allows troops to pick for themselves what they want to focus on to develop leadership and confidence and often doesn’t include camping at all. Many girls joined Girl Scouts expecting it to have the same focus as Boy Scouts, would be disappointed, and then drop out. This could give the Boy Scout experience to girls.
In order to make this happen, it was agreed that girls would have separate troops from boys. They could share resources but each troop would have their own youth and adult leaders and would need to camp in separate sites. It is not like they are sharing tents or anything like that.
So that’s why it is obvious to me that the Pentagon taking this stance is clearly regressive and just trying to be anti-woke and going after an easy target. The military is already coed, so why not give girls the same support and experiences that boys can have in Scouting? Its just another red flag that they want to prevent women from advancing in the military. They know that Scouting America is in a tough spot and thinks they can either get them to regress and tacitly endorse anti-wokeness or be made an example of.
There’s another recent change in Scouting America that was also controversial and seen as woke that the article doesn’t address. Following the George Floyd protests Scouting America came up with a new merit badge that would be required for any scout that wanted to reach the rank of Eagle: Citizenship in Society. This badge explicitly discusses racial injustice and teaches Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion principles. As you can imagine, this did not sit well with conservative members and many left in protest (though many had already left when girls and gays were allowed). There have been a few different new organizations attempting to recapture the old school Boy Scout mentality with a doubled down emphasis on gender exclusivity, religion, and pure meritocracy without any regard to positions of privilege. They are growing and I suspect one will try to replace Scouting America as the youth organization of choice for the military.
The troop my boy is in made the decision to be boy only but the troop one town over is mixed and they all camp in the same site with both boys and girls. So they don’t have to be gender separate.
Correct. The Dens / Units inside the Troop need to be gendered and have separate adults according to the rules, but actual applications of the rules vary in my experience.
My apologies, my information is out of date. Gendered splits only happen in 5th grade for cub scouts now.
They are supposed to be in separate sites, though many troops have always skirted rules in scouting
They are supposed to be in different tents with different bathing facilities. They can be in the same sites.
Is this a recent change? I got out about a year ago and up til then the training was clear that different sites were required
I’m wondering what exactly counts as a site for these purposes
I’ve been out of scouting for a long time now so I really don’t know how they’re working it
But I feel like different patrol areas at a lot of BSA summer camp sites probably offer more privacy and separation than there is at 2 adjacent sites at some non-bsa campgrounds.
I know at the summer camp my troop usually went to, you usually couldn’t really see or necessarily even hear what was going on in another patrol’s area, even though they were technically all part of the same site.
But at one state park we camped at a few times, we could pretty much see and hear everything that was going on in the adjacent group sites.
Get those disgusting vaginas out of my delicious boy soup. Slurp.
- Christians
samus12345Culture war BS to distract the MAGA base from the class war.
They want to fuck children. That’s literally it. They view children as sexual objects, and they view trans people as unattractive. They don’t want kids to transition, as that makes them unfuckable.
I think anyone butthurt about having girls in Scouts has a very tiny penis. I don’t have an explanation for the women obsessed with this kind of thing, though.
If you are not a kid in Scouts or you are not a parent involved in Scouts, this affects you how? The right is obsessed with all sorts of shit that does not affect them in the least. They’ll take up this kind of cause, all while they cannot afford to get by in this economy. It’s so fucking stupid.
the women obsessed with this kind of thing
Right wing women redirect their frustrations with being treated like breeding sows to an acceptable target. Gives them a feeling of power and control.
Making America safe by getting rid of the real threat from within, once and for all … girl scouts.
ShaggySnacksWe need to get those Girl Scout cookies off the street.
breakfastmtn
DarkFutureRepublicans will do literally anything to avoid actually governing.
This is the truth. It’s stupid culture war shit all the way down with these guys. Harmful stuff that will do nothing but help a few angry incels jerk off to “owning the libs”, but providing nothing of value to anyone in the country except for billionaires.