Devine Lu Linvega

Someone asked me why I don't implement markdown support to the wiki engine instead of painstakingly typing down html tags. I think the reason that I never felt like markdown was worth it, was that the editor I use makes writing html somewhat frictionless, maybe if I lost this, I'd consider adding a parser.

Markdown support adds a thick layer of junk to a SSG, maybe the trick is just to improve html support to the editor you use, and keep the site simplier.

Jan 31 at 5:14pmWeb
Show thread... and and and and ...Jan 31
@neauoire Bruh, I can't believe Left supports tag wrapping but bloody codium does. It's made with web shit, da fuck 🥴
Show threadDevine Lu LinvegaJan 31
@andnull There has GOT to be a plugin for that, I can't imagine Codium wouldn't be capable of doing that
Show thread... and and and and ...Jan 31
@neauoire I think what gets me is that it isn't and out of the box thing. I don't even think lighttable had that and it's whole gimmick was web development...
Show threadinscriptJan 31

@andnull @neauoire I don't use code/codium much but there is:
https://marketplace.visualstudio.com/items?itemName=bradgashler.htmltagwrap

*a good reminder to get around to writing a Micro plugin for this, lol

htmltagwrap - Visual Studio Marketplace

Extension for Visual Studio Code - Wraps selected code with HTML tags

Show threadfungus (penicillin producer)Jan 31

@neauoire i wish more editors were made to type html without it feeling so rudimental
i don't want snippets, i want something that understand html and allow me to move around it

markdown isn't a good idea (imho) because it will pulls many complexities starting from dialects
and once you want to write slightly more complex piece than what markdown can do, you must embed html in markdown… :<

Show threadDevine Lu LinvegaJan 31
@hypha it's definitely designed to be structuraly edited, being able to move in and out of tags to modify the structure sounds like the right approach. At least for a xml-centric editor.
Show threadfungus (penicillin producer)Jan 31
@neauoire it sounds to be, yes
maybe the way to move around could change depending of the kind of files it is, and we would call that major mode, with minor modes to do specific operations
oh wait
Show threadIvan ReeseJan 31

@neauoire implement some flavour of Tonedown?

https://wiki.feelingof.com/tonedown/

The (meh, but heavily commented) reference impl is line 86 to 256 here:

https://github.com/feelingofcomputing/wiki/blob/main/build/build.coffee

But generally, making your own to-html macro lang is a lovely little thing to do.

Show threadDevine Lu LinvegaJan 31

@spiralganglion that looks neat, although it makes the decision of `** or __`, which I would probably do without.

Org-mode has is right I think:

*bold*
/italic/
_underline_
+stroke+

Show threadIvan ReeseJan 31

@neauoire yeah, that weirdness is for backwards compatibility with markdown.

org-mode seems so nice on paper.

Show threadKLJan 31
@spiralganglion @neauoire I do all of my long-form writing in Org (using Emacs). I use Pandoc to put it in whatever output format it needs to be in. Blog post? Markdown. Novel? LaTex PDF and epub (using a Makefile). It’s great.
Show threadKonrad HinsenFeb 1

@spiralganglion It is even better on screen. I use both org-mode and Markdown daily, but I only ever swear at Markdown.

@neauoire

Show thread256kFeb 1
@khinsen @spiralganglion @neauoire
Another +1 for org mode.
Show threademenelJan 31
@neauoire markdown is a total mess... no standard, low semantic meaning ... html, xml, org-mode are all so much better and more expressive. yes, html is "more typing" (maybe), but then you have an actual readable structured document.
Show threadOblomovJan 31
@emenel @neauoire AsciiDoc is a pretty solid and feature-complete “minimal markup” language (I prefer it to markdown for this)
Show threadTomášJan 31
@neauoire raw html gang represent!
Show threadDevine Lu LinvegaJan 31
@prahou hittamul ftw
Show threadjordanJan 31
@neauoire @prahou "hoatmeal"
Show threadOzzelot Jan 31
@neauoire @prahou hatmull!
Show threadm0xEEFeb 4
@[email protected] @[email protected] @[email protected]
Hatmullen!
Show threadReid Jan 31
@neauoire @prahou that sounds like "a chi ta muort'"
Show threadledocoolFeb 1
@neauoire @prahou hittamul!
Show threadthedæmon (Clay Ayers) [he / him]Feb 1
Now I'm FORCED to say hittamul.

CC: @[email protected]
Show threadla ninpreFeb 2
@neauoire @prahou ヒッタムル！
Show threadKartik AgaramJan 31
@prahou @neauoire ✊
https://git.sr.ht/~akkartik/gen_site
Show threadadzuki "toes" bean ch. 🇨🇳    Jan 31
@prahou @neauoire i like gemtext more but also i dont consider http to be worthwile
Show threadMax LeeJan 31
@neauoire I'm just not a fan of xml-looking things.
Show threadailepetJan 31
@neauoire How does that wiki engine handle links to pages inside a same wiki? I can see how writing plain HTML instead of Markdown makes sense in a SSG context, however the [[autocomplete]] syntax in Obsidian has been the killer feature that helped me write my own wiki easily. I'd love to see something like that in more opensource editors
Show threadDevine Lu LinvegaJan 31

@ailepet It understands what is found inside of href tags to be other places and creates inbounds linking from those.

The editor can move between htm/html files like any other editor, there's no special support here.

Show threadJon SterlingFeb 1
@neauoire @ailepet looks cool… what editor is this?
Show threadDevine Lu LinvegaFeb 1
@jonmsterling @ailepet It's called Left.
https://wiki.xxiivv.com/site/left
left

By Devine Lu Linvega

XXIIVV
Show threadJon SterlingFeb 1
@neauoire @ailepet thank you!
Show threadmirthJan 31
@neauoire I maintain that Markdown is a downstream product of software distribution and reuse being difficult. It makes sense in a world where the user of the data will not have ready use of the tools used to author it, or full fidelity viewers. It's sort of the XLS of the software world.
Show threadTodd KnarrFeb 4
@neauoire @mirth That's pretty much the official origin. It was intended to be a plain-text markup that could be read as either formatted output supporting the basics (text styles, lists, simple tables), or as plain text with the visible markup making sense. If you wanted anything more complex, you were supposed to go to HTML or something suited to complex formatting.
Show threadwyattJan 31

@neauoire @prahou what editor is that?

i wrote my whole site in HTML directly inside emacs with just a couple custom macros to insert <p> tag pairs and things of that nature quickly. Although I also have some CSS. But I wrote the CSS in emacs as well, and the site explicitly was designed to still be totally readable without CSS.

I like your quick table insertion, i was writing those by hand

Wyatt's Blog: Sun Ultra 1

Show threadDevine Lu LinvegaJan 31
@wyatt @prahou it's called Left, it's not designed explicitly for html, but it can inject text snippets and moves the cursor to the first $ it encounters, I think that behavior might be reproduceable in emacs without trouble :)
https://wiki.xxiivv.com/site/left
left

By Devine Lu Linvega

XXIIVV
Show threadDevine Lu LinvegaJan 31
@wyatt @prahou you have a Sun Ultra?! WoAH 
Show threadwyattJan 31
@neauoire @prahou i got lucky after helping somebody else to obtain a PDP-11 LSI machine :)
Show threadDevine Lu LinvegaJan 31
@wyatt @prahou just read the post, what an excellent trade, well done :)
Show threadChloe :>Jan 31

@neauoire i prefer to write my website in markdown as i can show people the who have no idea what html is the un-processed document and they can still perfectly understand what they are seeing

but i still hate markdown with all my heart as its just a confusing mess of contradicting standards :>

Show threadλzydJan 31
@neauoire How do you primarily view your wiki pages, in this editor, in a browser, or something else? One of the reasons I don't do this is because I want to see the writing content, as opposed to the structural/semantic noise.
Show threadDevine Lu LinvegaJan 31
@zyd on the web browser mostly, since the text is essentially just ornamenting photos, drawings and diagrams.
Show threadfeJan 31
@neauoire i recently abandoned markdown and just started writting html for my website, couldn't be happier!!!
Show threadKirtai 🏳️‍⚧️Feb 1
@neauoire
I wonder how djot or markless compare to markdown.
Show threadmccdFeb 1

@neauoire There's something magical about not having a compilation step. I think it makes sense.

Also that font is just beautiful!

Show threadthedæmon (Clay Ayers) [he / him]Feb 1
HOW are you doing this? I don't see it in the manual.
Show threadDevine Lu LinvegaFeb 1

@thedaemon if you put something in the leap buffer:

alt+hello

Then to inject that file in the project:

alt+tab

If the injected file has a $, it'll move the selection there.

Show threadthedæmon (Clay Ayers) [he / him]Feb 1
I do not have a HELLO key on my keyboard.
Show threadDevine Lu LinvegaFeb 1
@thedaemon
Show threadArtyom BologovFeb 1

@neauoire oh, so all of your setup is a t/ directory with tag-specific template files? This is smart!

@thedaemon

Show threadDevine Lu LinvegaFeb 1
@aartaka @thedaemon exactly! I have other temples depending what I'm working on :)
Show threadArtyom BologovFeb 1

@neauoire have you considered multiple-hole templates? Emacs Yasnippet has that, and it’s quite useful for filling C function signatures argument by argument.

@thedaemon

Show threadDevine Lu LinvegaFeb 1
@aartaka @thedaemon yeah! I have an idea for it, when I can jump to the next $ after filling on in, haven't implemented it yet tho.
Show threadArtyom BologovFeb 1
@neauoire thank you for making this post. I feel home here, with all these people seeing Markdown for what it is and enjoying the tool-enabled power of HTML.
Show threadyuki - queen of the snowFeb 3
@neauoire what editor is this? acme?