@c_change I mean, if it tells you all you need to know, that tells me everything I need to know about you :-)

the world is not purely a black and white affair. does it change anything for you if you were to learn that the reason freedom of speech, for example, was not originally enshrined in the Constitution was because the opponents of the Bill of Rights said "this amendment is unnecessary because the Constitution gives the government no power to restrict freedom of speech"?

@c_change at least some of the people who thought the Bill of Rights was unnecessary disagreed with it explicitly because they thought that the existence of a Bill of Rights implies that the government has implicit powers to do things, and they did not want the federal government to have any powers not explicitly delegated to it.

I strongly suspect that learning this will not change your opinion of anything in any way :-) but I'll ask the question - does it?

@c_change lol. It says so much about someone when you present neutral, factual information in a way which would cause them to rethink something they've said and their response is to block you:-)

@Amoshias @c_change

This line of 'logic' is a somewhat alarming escalation by the far right. I mean, ignoring the bill of rights is necessary to meet their goals, I just have never seen anyone try to make any arguments supporting that until now.

@celesteh @c_change is the guy who I was responding to on the far right? I assumed he was a tankie saying "the country was rotten from the founding!"

@Amoshias @c_change

I a lot of american tankies weirdly get ahold of far right logic. For a while, they were watching RT, but now I think there's just a lot of weird chatter floating around their milieu that originates from hostile actors trying to influence them.

I know what this sounds like, but I saw a _lot_ of bots on twitter and there's absolutely no reason to imagine fedi has any defence at all against influence campaigns.

Indeed, when the US left goes off on a purity politics thing, I think that may be evidence of how much unfriendly influence they've endured for decades.

Just to be clear, horseshoe theory is (obviously) generally bunk, although, equally obviously there are highly volatile groups and individuals that do move from one extreme to another, seeking an authoritarian framework that suits them.

@Amoshias @c_change

Also, the country was rotten from the at least as far back as the Mayflower Compact, but one needs to think of likely outcomes when deciding on strategy. Now is clearly not a good time to attack the bill of rights, so anybody doing so is either hostile or wildly misguided.