Diva (she/her)Social Democrats: We must reform the precious!
MarshezezzAnarchists and communists can all agree, let’s burn this mother fucker down
🍉 Albert 🍉we can agree that we should burn this mf down. we just disagree on what to build afterwards
We can worry about that later, you got a lighter?
it’s just sad, that the moment we hang the last billionaire, us commies and anarchist will immediately become enemies. 😞
Yeah it would seem really counterproductive and a solution would be best. It would be cool to find compromise there but of course fascism has to dominate the conversation currently
that’s the tragedy of Catalunya. on the civil war between Republican Catalunya and Fascist Spain, Catalunya had a minicivil war between the communists and anarchists.
they are a bit ideologically incompatible. both hate capitalism, so it makes sense that they are friends now, but one intendeds to replace capitalism with a proletariat state, and the other consideres states as intrinsically evil, regardless of capitalism.
I’ll miss all my commie friends once the revolution comes 😔
I mean, you could just fuck off into the woods and visit when you want to, real commies won’t hunt you. I think it’s legit for people to want to live collectively under a state, and I think it’s legit for people to want to be completely independent. Without the never ending appetite of capitalism, I think the two could coexist.
interesting, the revolution isn’t here and yet you preemptively exiled me from my community.
I think you have an ideological misconception.
anarchy isn’t individualism. it is the opposite of individual independence. it’s based on mutual aid, we help each other in a collective without a state that can legally kidnap, imprison, kill you whenever it deems convenient and will lash out at anything that will threaten the state.
it’s the needless power structures that are intrinsically evil, racism, capitalism, sexism, state/people.
That’s just you looking to be butthurt. I’m saying that anarchists can go do their collective stuff and communists can go do their state stuff. You are viewing communism through the lenses of places that have pretended to be that way but were just using it as a disguise to exploit their workforce in a more extreme way than capitalism. There was no sharing of collective work in either the USSR or China. I personally think anarchy is for short sighted people who don’t understand history. Good luck doing your non independent loving that will somehow never set up organizing structures to maximize efficiency.
It is still interesting, that you are already applying the state to punish dissenters while claiming to be different, even in this hypothetical, you prove the toxic concept of states. As you are sugar-coating exile and literally promoting a political purge with punishments so harsh most nations do not do that (so far only the US uses exiles as a punishment for some minorities).
Also keep in mind you are talking with your allied who will help you during the revolution. are going to build a world with them with the knowledge that you plan to stab them in the back?
I think you are confusing the Anarchist aesthetic, with Anarchist theory, they are so far apart.
Instead of using state violence to prove to every anarchist why states are evil, why not use your energy to build a state which anarchists wont complain, one that does not use violence on its people, a state that feeds everyone, a state where everyone is free.
Because those tools you build in your state to fight the enemy within, will be eventually used against you.
At no point did I mention state violence. My point was that I don’t believe it would be a factor in an actual communist state. Could you highlight where you thought I was implying that?
you did,
how do you expect to exile me? if I do not consent?
At no point did I even hint at exiling anyone. With your victim complex I’m shocked you’re not maga. Can you quote where I mentioned exiling anyone?
is that you?
I mean, you could just fuck off into the woods and visit when you want to, real commies won’t hunt you. I think it’s legit for people to want to live collectively under a state, and I think it’s legit for people to want to be completely independent. Without the never ending appetite of capitalism, I think the two could coexist.
Please explain how saying you can go live on your own and that no one would look for you, is a threat? I literally say the two could co exist. You seem like a sad person just looking to be angry.
are gaslighting me? you literally just said that we can coexist as long as we are exiled, or in your words “fuck off”.
that is not coexistance.
seriously, look inwardly because it seems that you only want a revolution to reproduce the means of oppression just with you at the top, rather than smashing the tools of oppression.
No, you are the one who doesn’t want to live in a place with an operating state government. Are you just offended by the word fuck? Capitalism has broken your brain if you truly don’t believe there can be a governing body that can operate without oppression.
You set up a coercive government and tell everyone to obey or fuck off.
are you that daft?
you already starting your government with oppression. you’re not giving it a good case. what if I want to stay in my community and we don’t give a fuck about your government?
we won’t follow your laws or report to it. what will your government do?
Why would we care? If you are stealing shit or harming people, that would be an issue, but that’s also an issue for every society imagineable. Again, you can’t see past what capitalism does and that’s sad.
You are the one who can’t see what arbitrary hierarchies do, Capitalism is only one of them.
you just are saying that you aren’t oppressive by saying “COMPLY OR ELSE”.
you are the one who wants to replace capitalism with another form of tyranny.
How do you defend yourself when a strong capitalist state sends its centralized military against your peaceful decentralized commune?
I agree 100% with your vision of how society could/should be organized, I just don’t see it as a practical first step in a world dominated by capital.
please, go read some anarchist resources. because you are assuming anarchist are “peaceful” all my anarchist friends are armed and either have or are working on their open carry license.
That still doesn’t answer how groups of friends prevail against a centralized army with the industrial capacity of the world behind them.
are you aware of the concept of “organizing”? we aren’t a “group of friends” were a decentralized network with coalitions spanning multiple counties.
and you can see direct action in action. there are so many videos of ICE twats running from the public without taking whoever they were going to kidnap.
the Black Panthers are patrolling the streets with machine guns again.
you can just do stuff without permission from the state.
So it sounds like what you’re describing is acts of resistance while living under the capitalist world order. What I’m talking about is what happens after a successful revolution and you are trying to maintain control in the face of capitalist wealth and power.
Obviously, yes, organize and form resistance coalitions and use direct action to stop the fascists. Revolution is not possible without all of that. But IMO neither is revolution possible solely through those things. By design, a decentralized network of coalitions is not as effective at wielding power as a centralized state, which is a serious handicap in a war.
Honestly though, I would have no qualms with adopting an anarchist strategy if it seriously seemed like the best approach given material conditions at the time. At all times, Power to the People.
The anarchists in Spain managed to fight Spain, until international support ended, except the Nazis didn’t end support in violation of a treaty. resulting in Fascist Spain Spain having near unlimited support from Italy and Germany, and Catalunya getting fuck all. but before that happened, they managed to fight and resist.
each batallion was democratic, they voted on every military action, with the only rule is that there is no votes during active combat.
It’s not inevitable, after all we want the same end result - a classless, stateless, moneyless society.
If it has truly gotten to the point where every last billionaire is gone, then I would argue that is pretty good evidence for the end of the hegemony of capital. I’m not sure that the material conditions of a world like that would require a dictatorship of the proletariat, and much more alignment with anarchists could be reached.
Of course, if we are talking about a more realistic scenario like a revolution in a single nation, then absolutely a central state is required to protect the revolution from reactionaries.
Chiapas did quite well, but they were too small to stand a chance, and Rojava is still going strong (as far as I’m aware, western media is intentionally hiding all news from Rojava), even though they are at war with a NATO state.
irelephant [he/him]The situation for rojava isn’t looking great right now.
yhea, but I’m willing to bet its for external reasons.
SanctusThere are two political ideologies inside you
And they’re boys
They’re both boys and their kissing
:3
AntiOutsideAktion [he/him]I really want this comment section to become a giant argument about whether the characters are correctly labelled by their tendency. I’ll kick us off.
Sam should be ML because he would have purged Gollum
I’m reasonably certain an anarchist would have purged gollum, plus Sam is the one thinking about his friends and small community while Frodo is constantly focused on world scale events.
Sam just wants to grow potatoes and keep his friends safe. If that means killing a spider that literally almost ate the devil then sure he’ll do that, but mostly he just wants to be a gardener.
Frodo also turns on Sam despite how helpful/loyal Sam has been the entire time and later is corrupted by absolute power. This is reminiscent of a certain ml country that turned on anarchists as soon as the revolution happened…
He’s not cOrRuPPTeD bY AbSOlutE pOWer meme. There objectively exists sabotage against their project and he is deceived by the evidence present to temporarily purging Sam from the party.
Cows Look Like MapsYour description is how to make me upvote 101
☂️-
swab148Fun Lord of the Rings fact: someone once calculated that Smaug, the greedy evil dragon from the Hobbit, has horded gold worth roughly $70 billion. Not even in the top 20 of rich people today.
MinnesotaGoddamYou are too kind
Cowbee [he/they]We will win!
Have you ever considered maybe its not the ring that’s the problem but we just need better wielders?