「黃家駒 Wong Ka Kui」 | (aka: 鳳凰院 凶真 Hououin Kyouma)TIL that incest is legal in many countries. For example: Brazil, Russia, South Korea, Japan, Mainland China (but incest is illegal in Hong Kong SAR).
anamethatisntThen you have the really weird combos like Jamaica that forbids same-sex couples (regardless of incest) but allows opoosite-sex couples (also regardless of incest). So it’s okay for John to fuck his sister but not his brother.
Look at Ireland 👀
Makes more sense if you’re simply trying to avoid offspring from close relatives. John fucking his brother won’t result in that after all.
I think it’s more the case that the moral panic didn’t think of that at the time the law was created. It’s not like you need a law to allow you anything, laws only forbid.
I think you may be right of the initial law not including same-sex relatives, but when I checked Sweden (the third country together with Ireland and Germany to allow same-sex incest) the law that includes the part about incestuous sex has been updated in 2022 without changing the wording.
The swedish law only makes vaginal sex illegal btw, so in Sweden it’s okay for John to fuck his sister too, but only in the ass?
The swedish law only makes vaginal sex illegal btw, so in Sweden it’s okay for John to fuck his sister too, but only in the ass?
No, oral is fine too. Better than the loophole.
The Loophole by Garfunkel and Oates
True!
JohnnyCanuckFucking in an uncomfortable place?
I think the best is Italy’s, Venezuela’s and Uriguay’s “Illegal only if it provokes public scandal”
whyNotSquirrelyeah, what does it even mean?! It’s up to other people to judge
Public scandal is actually a somewhat well defined thing.
It has nothing to do with other people judging if it is or isn’t.
Because for it to qualify as a public scandal your in the fucking news and EVERYONE knows. Not just “people” but a FUCK load of “people” and it’s causing problems not just for you, but for everyone involved and even some people who are not.
It’s become a literal public problem.
Many Western European countries too, such as Belgium, France, the Netherlands and Spain!
Eh if consenting adults want to fuck each other then who are we to care? I suppose the laws are to reduce the number of birth defects that the system has to help care for.
That is one case, which is the reason why it’s usually culturally/genetically frowned upon. The other reason I guess is to prevent abuse in a parent/child relationship, where it’s different because there’s a power difference
Yeah. It is less “Oh no. This person I met at the bar and fell in love with is actually my cousin” and more “Oh, dad’s been grooming sally since she was 6…”
Ya it definitely should be illegal for offspring and parents…but like bro n sis? As long as they are taking every precaution to prevent pregnancy.
And no I’m not a sister fucker, I’m an only child. I roleplay that shit with my partner.
Giggity
gustofwindIf you had a sibling you wouldn’t be a weirdo into incest
I’m not into it? I roleplayed it maybe twice with my partner.
I roleplay that shit with my partner.
Yes I’m aware siblings can be abusive. I figured we are all smart enough here to know that. And to know I wasn’t talking about theoe dynamics.
Got it. So we don’t need laws because the people on a pseudo-reddit board are above it. Now tell us more about how you and your “partner” roleplay you fucking your sibling again.
You’re being an asshole. I never said there shouldn’t be laws. My laws would be if you’re gonna do it with your bro or sis, there are rules (laws) that you need to follow.
Christ, dude. Are you just wanting to fight? Oh wee, I roleplay with my wife. Omg everyone stop. I do roleplays that might be a little out there. I’m not shitting on her or eating her shit. Calm your ass down you grumpy goose.
And what you’re not getting is that you can’t meaningfully consent when someone in a position of power and safety has spent years convincing you that the only way to stay safe is to fuck them.
Jesus christ, dude. You know I’m not talking about this groomer rapists shit you are talking about. I’m talking about 2 consenting adults who might be related having willing sex. No groomer shit. No older bro or older sis or younger bro or younger sis. Just 2 adults who are related consenting to sex. Of fucking course a older sibling manipulating a younger sibling into sex is wrong.
Seriously, go lick sidewalk, trying to paint me as some type of monster. Putting words in my mouth. Screw you, dude.
Speaking of abusive sibling:
Yo I’m so lucky I’m cis male.
If I was female, I’m pretty sure that my older brother would’ve SA’ed me.
Like dude literally used zip ties to tie me up because I was “being annoying” to him…
like he’s 5 years older than me, so much power over me, like during that incident, I was probably like 6, he was 11…
so traumatized being unable to move for several hours until my parents came home
dude has zero boundaries
Doesn’t need any incest laws for that, when child abuse is already illegal, though.
Or do you think the predator in that scenario is gonna wait for her to reach legal age?
You DO realize that much of human culture and ceremony is about exactly that, right? Like… “debutante balls” and the like are literally “yo, my daughter is legal so who wants to fuck her?”. That is also, largely, the basis for the concept of “grooming”
I once went to a convention that was double booked with a Jewish youth convention. It was pretty obvious the whole thing was for having Jewish kids hook up with each other. Also, lots of Youth IDF shirts if you wanted to know for sure what flavor of Judaism was there. I have nothing but respect for anti war Jews.
That’s a pretty screwed up way to view society. ‘Debutante balls’, at the least the ones I know, are usual events where teenagers dance with partners of the SAME age.
This is more an elitist networking event with the chance to get your offspring to hook up with someone of ‘suitable’ social status.
Historically speaking, the age gaps might have been a lot bigger, but I guess societal norms and laws were also different then.
Of you course you can’t avoid older people on the sidelines ogling, but presenting that as the main purpose of the event is a pretty big stretch imho.
And regarding grooming: that’s not the typical definition, either. Usually grooming is a tactic to make the abuse victim accepting of their abuse. Waiting for them to reach legal age before ‘cashing in’ on that effort is not a usual part of it.
I agree it might be a hypothetical scenario though, that could be played out to do some really fucked up manipulation long game, while staying within a legal framework. But then again, that doesn’t strictly require the predator and victim to be related and if you want to have a way to abolish that, it shouldn’t need to rely on that either.
Some forms of incest are fine and it’s most cultural taboo that makes it a problem. Other types are extremely problematic and should be illegal no questions asked.
The problem then becomes how do you unknot the cultural problems from the legal ones and have anyone willing to actually talk about this in the first place.
Also you have to start getting into the weeds of how distant of a relative before its not incest anymore. Which from my limited knowledge countries seem to disagree on.
Marriage or even sex doesn’t imply pregnancy, but even if it does, if you start legally banning people from procreating based on the possibility of birth defects, you start having to consider other banning people who have conditions they had no control over from procreating. It’s an ethical quagmire.
Morality is what we make it be:
Unfortunately I guess its okay to murder me for thinking that way.
talI mean, we don’t yet definitively know of any other places with life, which sharply limits the number of other potential places about where the Creator might be concerned about genitals going on unapproved adventures.
It's more likely that before humanity got enough of its brain together to make it outlawed in majority of countries, we as a species, have probably fucked eachother in a family for years.
But just because that is plausible, doesn't make it any more right to do.
I found some interesting papers on this subject a few years back.
Statistically humans have the highest rate of fecundity with 3rd-4th cousins. Close enough to ensure genetic compatibility, far enough away to avoid deletetious recessive alleles popping up.
This makes sense when you think about the small groups that most humans have traditionally lived in.
AllNewTypeFaceYou know the saying “behind every sign there’s a story”? It may apply to laws as well.
Alabama, Mississippi, Arkansas…
The population of Iceland is so small, they have a special app to consult when 2 people meet, so they can figure out if they are too closely related.
Must make single bars interesting:
“Are you from the South, because your the only Tennessee!”
“Yeah, okay, how do you spell your last name?”
Also, almost no Icelanders have last names (in the sense of family names). Most have just a patronymic that translates as “son/daughter of (father’s name)” (i.e., Björk’s father was named Guðmundur), which is why references to Icelanders in the news refer to them by given name. As the Icelandic name pool is limited (there’s a naming committee which must approve all new names, and they’re somewhat conservative), the population register also includes people’s nicknames.
TonavaThat app thing is apparently not true. Someone did make an app like that but it was never a big thing, some trash news just found out about it and made great headlines out of it
My story is better.
About marriage between cousins: Historically, the christian church has forbidden marriage between even very distant cousins. Intended or not, this has dismantled the power of large family clans.
Over centuries this has a clear effect on psychology: more individualism, a higher willingness to trust strangers (cooperation between non-relatives) and more. Joseph Henrich (anthropologist) has a whole book about this called The WEIRDest People in the World .
When I got US Citizenship, my mom joked about that I should “marry my cousin¹ in China so she could get a green card” (this was like 2016)
¹she meant like her sister’s daughter
I was like:
WTF mom, that’s disgusting, pretty sure marrying a cousin is a crime. (well it is in the us)
Also, it’s marriage immigration fraud.
wtf is that “joke” lmfao, does she want me ending up in prison or something?
This isn’t an “um actually,” simply a weird american thing that I’ve experienced but, marriage to your first cousin is not illegal here. Prolly should be, and you aren’t wrong about it being immigration fraud but still, if it was a real marriage, there wouldn’t be anything illegal about it.
edgemaster72a weird american thing that I’ve experienced
you’ve what now?
Only in most of the US. Some states are very libertine about first cousin marriage
gandalf_der_12tethat is such an italian thing to do
The Lucrezia Borgia clause