Jon Worth

I am now getting train-splained that trains from London to Köln and Frankfurt are not economic, and that my #CrossChannelRail work has not done an economic impact assessment https://jonworth.eu/if-you-were-to-build-a-depot-for-channel-tunnel-passenger-trains-where-would-you-build-it/#comment-88076

FFS

1) I am 1 campaigner, and have produced more detail on these topics than *anything else* in public, and more than any company has released

2) If Amsterdam (4 hours) works, why can Köln (4 hrs) and Frankfurt (5 hrs) with large catchments NOT work?

Jan 6 at 4:20pmWeb
Show threadJon WorthJan 6

What do these people do when - for example - Eurostar says "we will run to Geneva!" and says nothing of how or why?

Are these people assuming the companies know what they are doing, and are not saying the HOW in public?

Why am I, a campaigner doing crowd funded projects, being held to higher standards than firms with €€€ budgets?

#CrossChannelRail

Show threadJon WorthJan 6

And ultimately as I see it, the expansion of #CrossChannelRail has to go this way:
1) where CAN you run?
2) what are the COSTS to running there (adapting terminals, staffing border control booths, who pays for that)?
and THEN
3) is there an economic case for doing it?

Were London a NORMAL high speed destination (no bag scans or border controls) it's absolutely OBVIOUS a Frankfurt-London would work, economically. 1) and 2) make it hard

Show threadpglux.bsky.socialJan 6
London - Cologne - Frankfurt with a 2-hr headway can certainly work and break even. Even with the current ☢️🏰👽🛂 drama and no cabotage within the Schengen Area. (Just run a 200-m 🚄 London SP ↔️ Frankfurt Hbf + a relief 🚄London SP ↔️ Bruxelles M. Likewise on London SP ↔️ Amsterdam C)
Show threadSven Slootweg, low-spoons mode ("still kinky and horny anyway")Jan 6
@jon I haven't been following the conversation in detail, but this is sounding to me like one of those cases of "if you want to believe it can't work, you'll find plenty of reasons to believe that, but you certainly won't find ways to make it work", which is the absolute most frustrating discussion pattern for just about any advocacy work... sigh
Show threadJon WorthJan 6
@joepie91 Yes, it is a bit of that. And it is a bit of someone wanting to try to show they're superior. And the whole lot is indeed just tiring. And rather annoyingly it is so prevalent in railway discussions. "Here are 101 things you did not think of! Answer THOSE!"
Show threadWrzlbrnftJan 6
@jon Paris to Nice takes 6 hours by TGV. How can these trains exist in the eyes of this guy?
Show threadMostxlnt!Jan 7
@jon I wonder if stations like St Pancras, Gare du Nord etc. shouldn't introduce 'Station taxes' in the same way we pay airport taxes to fund the customs/security checks? When you buy a plane ticket you see how much the tax costs and then it's included in the price you pay. That way it would be clear who's paying for these checks. Also, it would allow e.g. Eurostar to charge this tax to pay for inspections on the train, which still seems like the obvious solution to me to all these problems.
Show threadJon WorthJan 7
@mostxlnt Perhaps. I’m not sure if putting all these costs onto the consumer is right. But transparency of who pays what would be welcome indeed.
Show threadjslJan 6
@jon Deutsche Bahn jumped through all the hoops to do exactly that because they are dumb? Gemini (?) recently did the same, because start-ups don't think about economic viability?? Lufthansa & BA are operating 20 daily flights FRA-LON because they are mostly empty and only used by people living and working walking distance from these airports and not by bankers who'd love to arrive in the middle of a city??? These commenters really know it all! /s
Show threadJon WorthJan 6
@jsl To be fair I am not sure that Gemini had full answers. DB did in the 2010s. DB doesn't now, really, it wants to let Eurostar find answers :-)
Show threadDr. SobekJan 6

@jon @jsl Why did DB, having all the answers in the 2010, not run anything to London commercially ?

(If there's some explanation)

Show threadJon WorthJan 6
@Sobex @jsl Because it couldn't OPERATIONALLY. Border controls, and ICE 406 series being too unreliable, and delay getting the 407 series into service.
Show threadjbJan 6

@Sobex @jon @jsl

Quite likely due to the same privatization cuts that is helping the ICE run on time.

Show threadJon WorthJan 6
@jb No. Not directly. Operationally too difficult, and some bad luck with the ICE 406 series. @Sobex @jsl
Show threadjbJan 6

@jon @Sobex @jsl

I just had two, TWO, on time ICE trips between Munich and Cologne, with no delays in either direction, this weekend.

I consider my DB luck entirely consumed for 2026.

Show threadJon WorthJan 6
@jb I actually think the mess DB finds itself in NOW (which stems from the issues that date back to the late 1990s, Schröder etc.) is the reason - understandably! they are not keen on London now. If I were in their shoes I would not do it now either. And the pr the other week was basically saying "we'll not stand in Eurostar's way" @Sobex @jsl
Show threadDr. SobekJan 6
@jon @jb @jsl So DB is paying for decision taken when it was under direct government control ?
Show threadjbJan 6

@Sobex @jon @jsl To be honest, we‘re all paying for the austerity and deferred maintenance on rail from the 90s onward.

I expect more of that under Merz.

Show threadJon WorthJan 6
@jb Yep. We can happily discuss dates, people, cause and effect (or not) here, but the mid to late 1990s are the start of this. @Sobex @jsl
Show threadJon WorthJan 6
@Sobex @jb @jsl Hmmm, not quite. Bahnreform was 1994 (to make DB AG), but it was the Mehdorn period as boss of DB 1999-2009 where - looking back - the rot really set in. And that coincided with Schröder as Kanzler.
Show threadjbJan 6
@jon @Sobex @jsl I will defer to you and your expertise. I wasn’t in Europe during those years.
Show threadjbJan 6

@jon @Sobex @jsl

To be honest, I’d absolutely take a Eurostar to London from Cologne. Especially if it‘s faster and more convenient than getting to the city than Heathrow.

Show threadJon WorthJan 6
@jb @Sobex @jsl Right, but I do not really trust Eurostar is going to do it *either* - because the company is so mired in its inability to solve problems I can't see how they can. They bought the wrong trains for their future services for a start. Virgin Trains might eventually try to run to Germany.
Show threadAndy DeardenJan 6
@jon Begin each day by telling yourself: Today I shall be meeting with interference, ingratitude, insolence, disloyalty, ill-will, and selfishness – all of them due to the offenders’ ignorance of what is good or evil. But for my part I have long perceived the nature of good and its nobility, the nature of evil and its meanness 1/2
Show threadThe Man in Seat 61Jan 6
🙄
Show threadwoe2youJan 6
@jon Trainsplaining? That Thomas can be a little shit sometimes.