@spaceraser @jlw_the_jobber I've only ever used base FreeBSD and I've encountered some absolutely horrific, destructive errors over the years, and certainly desktop use is a challenge, even if it's as good as it's ever been. (There are still a wheelbarrow of issues I could bring up.) Honestly I used to use NetBSD as my desktop in the 90s and I had less pain.

Nowadays, maybe try OpenBSD? It won't get you ZFS and that's a showstopper for me, of course.

What's at the core of your wanting to really try FreeBSD? Maybe there are other ways to scratch the itch.

For me, the perfect OS was Debian before the systemd cult dominated the project. My most common desktop in the house today is Debian on ZFS with sysvinit. The six of us here use it as our primary workstations. We do have two FreeBSD desktops used regularly for various purposes, and it's getting better, but the regular bleeding over it is a challenge.

In the end, use something that gives you pleasure. Life's too short.

@spaceraser @jlw_the_jobber @mason

Having run Linux 25 years ago, I have a much higher tolerance for incomplete hardware support and other glitches. 😂

@rl_dane @spaceraser @jlw_the_jobber @mason

The first laptop I used Linux on, I had to install a custom kernel to get the keyboard, battery level reporting, and touchscreen working.

Installing an OS without a working keyboard was certainly difficult… since that device had only one USB port so I couldn't both have a live USB and an external keyboard plugged in. Except with my cheap USB hub which only had 2.0 speeds, meaning the install was incredibly slow.

@rl_dane @spaceraser @jlw_the_jobber @mason

Believe it or not, that's the device where I did the bulk of my distro hopping.

@amin @spaceraser @jlw_the_jobber @mason

Those are the kind of experiences that put hair on your... neck. XD

@rl_dane @spaceraser @jlw_the_jobber @mason

Mmmmm, maybe, if I hadn't left out crucial information:

It was a Micro$oft Surface Laptop.

@amin @spaceraser @jlw_the_jobber @mason

I recall! Properly cursèd machine!

@rl_dane @spaceraser @jlw_the_jobber @mason

https://github.com/linux-surface/linux-surface

@amin @spaceraser @jlw_the_jobber @mason

Honestly, the #Linux kernel is just such an amazing accomplishment.

I don't understand why userspace has to be such a gigantic ball of wax, and constantly changing, and subject to such insane politics and infighting*.

Meanwhile, #OpenBSD is like, "Well, our kernel doesn't have a modern filesystem, or bluetooth, and it may just panic if you poke the wrong thing, but the manpages will make you weep with joy, and everything is more or less sane and nicely laid-out, and we don't change things unless the change is an improvement."

* To be sure, right or wrong, I consider the constant push towards systemd-kitchensink to be very much political. And by "political," I mean "stupid office politics," not "your discussion of inherent issues of justice and ethics makes me uncomfortable in my privilege."

@rl_dane

This makes me wonder how closely the OpenBSD kernel updates to keep up with CVE-related security issues?

@amin @spaceraser @jlw_the_jobber @mason

@jrredho @amin @spaceraser @jlw_the_jobber @mason

That's a great question! I'm sure the #OpenBSD team takes security very seriously, but I'm afraid I don't know the specifics when it comes to CVEs.

@rl_dane @jrredho @amin @spaceraser @jlw_the_jobber

Ask and ye shall receive. This lists patches (and CVEs) by release:

https://www.openbsd.org/security.html

@mason

Awesome! Thanks.

Now I wonder how this list compares with the Linux kernel efforts to do the same.

@rl_dane @amin @spaceraser @jlw_the_jobber

@jrredho @mason @amin @spaceraser @jlw_the_jobber

I think #OpenBSD places a much higher priority on security than Linux, maybe even pathologically so. ;)

I can't claim that makes it more secure in practice, but I know they are far more willing to break things in order to make it more secure.

IIRC, Linus doesn't even really like marking whether something is a security fix or not.

Again, I'm not saying that Linux is demonstrably less secure, and there are tons of options in the kernel to make it more secure that distros don't necessarily use or take advantage of.

@kabel42 @jrredho @mason @amin @spaceraser @jlw_the_jobber

Yes, but a potential security problem isn't the same thing as a demonstrable security problem.

I may be a harrowed ex-infosec guy, but I think you've got a duty to mark things as high priority when they can be exploited.

@kabel42 @jrredho @mason @amin @spaceraser @jlw_the_jobber

False dichotomy, but ok. ;)

@kabel42 @jrredho @mason @amin @spaceraser @jlw_the_jobber

No, I was always the one being told that security wasn't that important. XD