grosskopfgamesNov 27
benjojo
This MacOS (APFS?) quirk was mentioned at the pub last night, and I still cannot believe this actually works when I tried it myself
Nov 27 at 11:01amWeb
Show threaddmi 💽 Nov 27
@benjojo i joked about this 2 or so years ago (outside the normalization context), i can’t believe this is actually real
Show threadHaelwenn /элвэн/ Nov 27
@domi @benjojo eeeeh…
I feel like this would get extremely funny if POSIX ever ends up standardizing on an encoding *and* it's not just ASCII.
Show threaddmi 💽 Nov 27

@lanodan @benjojo ß is in cp437 tho! 0xE1

it’s in the extended charset, so not within 7-bit ASCII (and not compatible with UTF-8) but it’s actually one of the funny characters that made it in

Show threaddmi 💽 Nov 27
@lanodan @benjojo oh, wait, i misread your message. Oh Well
Show threadHaelwenn /элвэн/ Nov 27
@domi @benjojo Although macOS probably wouldn't be alone there, ZFS has unicode normalization, but at least it's not default and configurable per subvolume.
Show threadIgnas KielaNov 27
@[email protected] @[email protected] @[email protected] this is not normalization though, this is collation. And collation is (almost always) locale dependent.
Show threadednl 🇪🇺Nov 28

@ignaloidas @lanodan @domi @benjojo It does also work as:

$ LANG=C LC_ALL=C ßh

Show threadIgnas KielaNov 28
@ednl @[email protected] @[email protected] @[email protected] this is FS access, so I'd imagine it's not caring about what libc thinks the locale should be, and rather is using some system locale defined in filesystem code somewhere

but I don't know enough about MacOS to say where exactly that lives
Show threadterruNov 27
@domi @benjojo i feel a need to tag @bruttl here

(re https://chaos.social/@bruttl/110504846628125622 )
bruttl (@[email protected])

Content warning: shitpoßt

chaos.social
Show threadTomNov 27
@benjojo @WiteWulf no way. Amazing.
Show threadDanNov 27
@benjojo what the hell! I saw someone else posting about this a few days ago and I thought it was a joke!!!
Show threadNils Goroll 🕊️Nov 27

@meph @benjojo looking forward to all the EN-speaking devs switching to DE keyboard layouts.

Wir heißen Euch wärmstens willkommen ;)

vi /etc/nßwitch.conf

Show threaddeBaerNov 28
@slink @meph @benjojo They should try Neo2, it makes it easy to type brackets, braces, ß and ẞ.
Show threadPhilmacFLyNov 28
@slink @meph @benjojo
https://social.troll.academy/@PhilmacFLy/115626309507595509
Show thread♾️ WaterNov 27
@benjojo Now I have to set ßh to a shell alias everywhere. This is brilliant.
Show threadLIΞBΔCHNov 27
@benjojo I love that!
Show threadsilhouette   Nov 27
@benjojo holy fuckin shit
Show threadDougallNov 27

@benjojo @hailey Haha – reminds me of this little CTF challenge:

https://github.com/skateboardingdog/bsides-cbr-2025-challenges/blob/main/misc/password-game/src/password_game.swift

(there is a solution in the repository)

bsides-cbr-2025-challenges/misc/password-game/src/password_game.swift at main · skateboardingdog/bsides-cbr-2025-challenges

Files + Solutions for BSides Canberra 2025 CTF Challenges - skateboardingdog/bsides-cbr-2025-challenges

GitHub
Show threadDentaku (Thomas Renger)Nov 27
@benjojo If your filesystem is set to case insensitive, ẞH works too.
Show threadSnowFoxNov 27

@dentaku @benjojo In my testing, ß=ss only works on case-insensitive APFS (not HFS+), I assume because ß case-folds to "ss": https://tech.lgbt/@snowfox/115488236610258352

(I should try again with dotless/dotted i.)

SnowFox (@[email protected])

@[email protected] @[email protected] @[email protected] APFS no longer appears to use NFD (é is c3 a9, not 65 cc 81). Instead, I think it's APFS's case-folding, which seems to be Unicode case-folding or near enough: e.g. in Python, 'ß'.casefold() returns 'ss'. (I haven't looked into the internals of APFS; the details may be documented.) It doesn't seem to happen in HFS+ (which uses a simplified case-folding algorithm IIRC), HFSX (a.k.a. "case-sensitive HFS+"), or on case-sensitive APFS (newfs_apfs -e). I'm also happy to report that both APFS and HFSX seem to fix the bug where U+200c is ignored for filename comparisons: https://git-blame.blogspot.com/2014/12/git-1856-195-205-214-and-221-and.html

LGBTQIA+ and Tech
Show threadManawyrm | SarahNov 27
@benjojo @weizenspreu o.O
Show threadKennyNov 27
@manawyrm @benjojo These are the kind of quirks I definitely wouldn’t expect of a MegaCorp in 2025. Loving it. 😄
Show threadY⃒̸̷̝̜̙ͥͥͥngmarNov 27

@benjojo Nice one. I can absolutely see how that happened.

Human interface folks: "Filenames are text and should behave like text"

Unix folks: 😬 

Show threadolokNov 27
@benjojo
as for funny macos trivia, macos has a malloc zone called `MALLOC_NANO`, which was *always* mapped at 0x600000000000. I can see that it is still mapped into some processes, though I can't reproduce allocations into it with my previous PoCs, but IIRC, this zone used to be malloc()'s default zone for some cases.
Show threadolokNov 27
@benjojo
This was discovered by an even funnier situation in which somebody allocated some memory during programs compiletime and outputted address of the dynamically allocated memory into a constant in the compiled program, then during runtime dereferenced this address and, to their surprise, nothing happened.
Show threadBeardy Unix UserNov 27
@benjojo @cstross sounds like my kind of pub.
Show threadDaniel TemmeNov 27
@benjojo I kind of like it but hate the unavoidable inconsistency with et and at
Show threadISSOtmNov 27

@benjojo Friend of mine saw this, first thing he said is "this has to be exploitable".

... 😭 of course this has to bypass something's path sanitisation

Show threadISSOtmNov 27
@benjojo (He also mentions that APFS is case-sensitive on iOS)
Show threadwaldiNov 29
@issotm @benjojo That’s why it does not work on my iPad.
Show threadme·ta·phil, derNov 27
@benjojo wunderbar, now ze Germans can finally ßh into their heimserver
Show threadjoeNov 27
@metaphil @benjojo
this happens if you don't use the
right command: 'ſſh'
Show threadTobiasNov 27
@benjojo Yeah, a few weeks ago my fedi-bubble noticed that too:
https://toot.berlin/@krono/115484271882289019
Tobias (@[email protected])

@[email protected] In fact they're all the same: ``` % stat =ſsh =ſſh =ssh =ßh =ẞH | cut -d\ -f1,2,5,28 16777232 1152921500312526789 root /usr/bin/ſsh 16777232 1152921500312526789 root /usr/bin/ſſh 16777232 1152921500312526789 root /usr/bin/ssh 16777232 1152921500312526789 root /usr/bin/ßh 16777232 1152921500312526789 root /usr/bin/ẞH ```

toot.BERLIN
Show threadMarcos DioneDec 1

@krono @benjojo yeah, similarly:

```
: mdione@bad-apple:~$; ls -lid /etc/pa{ss,ß}wd
41554122 -rw-r--r-- 1 root wheel 9196 Aug 16 20:44 /etc/passwd
41554122 -rw-r--r-- 1 root wheel 9196 Aug 16 20:44 /etc/paßwd
```

Show threadTobiasDec 1
@mdione @benjojo helloooo `../../../etc/paſſwd`
but there's nothing of interest in there anyways on modern macOS'en…
Show threadash Nov 27
@[email protected] ...ohhh because case insensitive FS
Show threadpatproNov 27
@benjojo OMG, brilliant :D
Show threadAlexander RutzNov 27
@benjojo @jwildeboer Looks like a feature to me! ;)
Show threadSigmaNov 27
@[email protected] Okay, this is hilarious! ^^
Show threadholgerssonNov 27
@benjojo Feature request: Open a Zsh on the remote side, because ß equals sz, so you're typing szh.
Show threadDr. Christopher KunzNov 27
@benjojo There's also the famous encryption tool openßl.
Show threadstefan (stefbun)Nov 27
@benjojo swiss users cannot comprehend this! (marked not safe for switzerland)

This is great
Show threadTabascoEyeNov 27
@benjojo oh my god. I did not know that
Show threadMoss (the τεχie) <(fsm)>{{Nov 27

@TabascoEye
That’s a very nice ß! Which script/font is this?

@benjojo

Show threadbenjojoNov 27
@Moss_the_TeXie @TabascoEye Seemingly "Monaco", it's the default for iTerm2 on MacOS
Show threadTabascoEyeNov 27
@benjojo @Moss_the_TeXie no, that's IBM plex mono (or rather the nerdfont variant "blex")
https://www.programmingfonts.org/#plex-mono
https://github.com/ryanoasis/nerd-fonts/releases/download/v3.4.0/IBMPlexMono.zip
I loooove the small g so much
Programming Fonts - Test Drive

Try out the best and newest monospace fonts for code

Show threadwetterfroschNov 27
@TabascoEye @benjojo Does it handle ligatures, too? like find instead of find?
Show threadTabascoEyeNov 28
@wetter @benjojo OMG. yes
Show threadKilla KoalaNov 27
@benjojo Oh dear, you found it. Be careful, that version of ssh connects you to the torment nexus host, and connecting to the torment nexus is rarely survivable.
Show threadOndřej CaletkaNov 27
@benjojo I wonder whether in some German locale, one can do `mkdir ÖBB` and then `cd OEBB` 😀
Show thread🏳️‍⚧️ [screams in lowercase]Nov 27
@benjojo That's wild. :D
Show threadniconiconiNov 27
@[email protected] It's said that not all macOS apps work properly if filesystem case insensitivity is turned off, otherwise I'd like to when formatting my disk.
Show threadRuss GarrettNov 27
@niconiconi @benjojo I ran a case sensitive FS for a few years when there was talk of Apple switching to case-sensitive. 99% of stuff worked fine, but the remaining 1% was a complete nightmare.
Show threadDr. SobekNov 27
@russss @niconiconi @benjojo Ohh, is there some clearer documentation about what broke and what sort of curse ?