Thanksgiving with family

https://sh.itjust.works/post/50501667

Something something both sides.

Both sides are not exactly the same. Unfortunately, there are similarities. Dont you want more differences?

For instance, the majority of blue states use First-past-the-post voting. Republicans are passing legislation to protect FPTP voting in states they control. Why do Blue states continue to use the voting system preferred by the republican party?

What’s more puzzling is the fact that the democratic party fully understands the flaws of FPTP. That’s why they harp and harp on 3rd party voters every election season. Yet democrats do not push to resolve the issue by passing electoral reform.

Why would the democrats support a voting system that artificially limits the number of viable political parties to two? (Alongside the republicans aka both sides)

I will leave you to draw your own conclusion.

Electoral Reform Videos

First Past The Post voting (What most states use now) Videos on alternative electoral systems STAR voting Alternative vote Ranked Choice voting Range Voting Single Transferable Vote Mixed Member Proportional representation

Florida bans ranked-choice voting in new elections law

In a ranked-choice voting system, voters rank candidates by preference on their ballots rather than selecting just one.

WPTV News Channel 5 West Palm
They’d probably say something more like “woke and gay”

And still. Same same.

Like if I met someone and they said check out that loser over there. He/she’s woke and gay. I’d be cool someone sane I can talk to.

To be fair I don’t think their definition of woke would be somebody who is understanding. A “woke” person would not give them grace for having an alternative viewpoint.
I agree because of the political cloud over their eyes, but if there were a lineup for both words, they’d point out the same person.
Snowflake and brain washed

Hold on, let me consult the professional for interspecies communication…

“i’m dying to go so i can make fun of my f-word nephew”
I recently heard someone say their brother had married a woman who was so crazy she was “one of those liberals who would praise satan for Charlie Kirk’s death.”
Hail Satan
is cake day in here too?
The cake is factually correct
If Satan is the one who arranged it, I’d say he’s done a good chunk of atonement toward getting back into Heaven.

This is my uncle, except instead of redneck, he’s Cuban and die-hard GOP. He also hates my part of the family because we caught him, his daughter, and fiancée stealing from my dying grandmother despite him being her caretaker.

He did an amazing job at caring for her while also snatching valuables because he knew he’d have to share when she died.

Reminiscent of my uncle and his care for/leeching of my grandmother, except check this out.

Last time I saw him we were talking he told me “I am racist, but know racism is wrong, and I’m trying my best to teach my kids not to be like that”

Which is super self aware; so good for you? But I just can’t wrap my mind around how you can know racism is wrong and yet continue to be racist and struggle to teach your kids to not be racist. Like…just stop being racist?

There’s a strange duality of living or coming from the South in the US, and presumably, other places with extreme prejudice. Words or phrases get used like water such that they are etched into your mind, causing an almost Pavlovian response mechanism to trigger, despite one’s true feelings.

It’s almost like a game Red light, Green light, but for awfulness. I haven’t lived in the South for decades, and on occasion, a hateful word will pop out of a dark hole in my head even though my real thoughts and actions run counter to it.

I can sort of understand his stance, but being aware of it is enough, at least to me, is more than enough to fix it. Anything other than that is intentional malice.

I think I have pity for him being racist and not wanting to be, but I am confused. He can’t help the thoughts that go through his head, if that’s what he means, but I don’t know if he is also acting on those thoughts. If he is, then yeah, just stop, lol.

Except it’s not so simple. Research consistently shows that even people who believe themselves not to be prejudiced act differently based on prejudice. Having a “black” name, BIPOC, a woman, disabled, or any other “minority” affects active and attitudes subliminally.

Who do you ask a question to (the person pushing the wheelchair, or the person in the wheelchair?), sit next to on public transit (the black guy or the white woman?), friend’s teenager you ask to babysit/house-sit (the white girl or the black guy?), hire to do your gardening (the Hispanic man or the black woman?), question do you take first after your work presentation (white man or Indigenous woman?), smile at politely as you pass on the street (the unhoused?), etc.

For someone who acknowledges they are racist, these biases run even deep, and I imagine it must be mentally taxing to constantly run a filter on your actions you notice, let alone all your unconscious/automatic reactions.

As someone who’s a “woke” anti-racist, I find it challenging to even notice my biases, let alone change my actions. (When’s the last time you made eye contact and smiled at an unhoused person automatically, without noticing you’re doing it? I do so, but it’s a conscious action for me, not automatic.)

Who do you ask a question to (the person pushing the wheelchair, or the person in the wheelchair?),

-> depends on why they sit in a wheelchair and what I want to ask.

sit next to on public transit (the black guy or the white woman?)

-> I mostly stand but again, if I had to sit, it depends on the vibe I am getting from both, with - vibe considered equal - a tendency to sit near a guy to not make a woman feel uncomfortable.

, friend’s teenager you ask to babysit/house-sit (the white girl or the black guy?),

-> if color of skin or gender enter my considerations, I would let neither anywhere near a child, as I obviously do not know them nearly well enough.

hire to do your gardening (the Hispanic man or the black woman?)

-> I will not pay someone to do chores for me, doing everyday chores is what keeps people grounded. I don’t want to risk becoming something like a boomer.

, question do you take first after your work presentation (white man or Indigenous woman?),

-> whoever signaled a question first

smile at politely as you pass on the street (the unhoused?)

-> everyone that makes eye contact

-> holy shit you made that list of examples sound like it’s in any way difficult to know exactly how to behave.

Ok say you had to let someone watch your dog or it will starve or get very sick from overeating and all your friends/family/acquaintances are out of town, and there was a medical emergency that the ambulance is just about ready to leave, and you were wearing headphones so you didn’t notice anything was wrong until the people in the ambulance walked in through the door someone else had opened for them. You have 10 seconds before the ambulance leaves with your loved one, and have to decide from 2 onlookers. One person is white and one is black. That is the only difference you can gather as you are quickly walking by, and you don’t have time to get a good look at either of them. You can only choose one because your landlord’s policy only allows you to have 1 person who isn’t you have a key to your apartment. Which do you choose?
For you to write up such an elaborate mental gymnastic just to ask a question about skin colour makes me think you are racist. Normal people like me see more about a person than just the colour of their skin, also at a glance.
I was hoping to get you to actually engage with a hypothetical but it seems that’s impossible. I also see more than skin color at a glance, but again you’re not engaging with the hypothetical since I said they are identical other than skin color, but sure.
For you to even describe two people as “identical other than skin colour”, you should seek professional help, assuming you don’t want to be racist.
I stay in the basement.

I don’t disagree, but it’s like asking a woman who she would rather be alone with, an unknown man or an unknown woman. There’s also familiarity bias and having more in common. I don’t think I have to be racist or prejudice to know there will in general be less friction with a white dude vs a black dude, because that’s just most people around me. I still try and ignore that because I know it’s limiting my experiences, but there are good reasons that I wouldn’t ascribe purely to prejudice.

Also for the wheelchair example, I again think there are reasons for this. For the person in the wheelchair you often don’t know why, did they have a stroke and can’t speak? Are they ill? Or did they just hurt their leg? I’m not saying people wouldn’t be biased against the disabled even if that weren’t true, but a lot of these have legitimate reasons that aren’t just prejudice (maybe the dictionary definition but not irrational prejudice).

As someone who was raised in a rather racist area, I can say that it took a really long time to purposefilly unlearn the automatic gut responses my father ingrained into me. I would, for several years, think or say something without considering it, and immediately realize what I had just said. Actions and attitudes are often automatic, especially when taught for a long time. I can certainly see where the uncle’s coming from, because I’d imagine that the only reason I’ve been able to mostly get through it is because I got away from that situation when I went to college.

he’s Cuban

Some people will tell you that Communism made Cuba a better place. But I suspect a big part of it was all the worst fuckers on the island moving to Florida.

Communism was the mean which it happened

That’s not why they’re the way they are. I’ve expounded on the topic at length before on Lemmy. My family and people are tainted by The Bay of Pigs. They fled Fidel for the US and lost everything they owned in Cuba. That created the bitterness toward Communism and Socialism.

The Bay of Pigs created their hatred for the Dems. The brainwashing was a result of the freedom fighters having their US support removed last minute, leaving them to be killed or jailed. Congress voted to remove support after Kennedy promised it. The brainwashing was around Kennedy doing it intentionally when in reality it was the Republican led Congress and Senate.

probably doesnt help that most of their first/only experience with the US is florida, southern florida at that. far as scammer culture goes, it probably doesn’t get much worse in the US than florida (maybe equal to boston/NYC/silicon valley?)
100%. I left Florida in 99. Returned briefly in 2004 and left for good in 2009. I happen to be here visiting my parents now. Thankfully they live in the Florida Keys.

They fled Fidel for the US and lost everything they owned in Cuba.

The Bay of Pigs created their hatred for the Dems.

That’s a story I’ve heard. But Dems continued to win Florida through Obama.

Seems like a lot of the Cuban Exile energy came out of their 80s era gray market role in drugs and arms dealing through the Caribbean. And that put them at the forefront of the crypto ponzi schemes under Obama, Trump, and Biden.

Now they’re just bog standard libertarian fascists.

It’s not entirely inaccurate. My great-grandfather was known as The Sugar King. On the other side of the family, my other great granddad worked for PepsiCo LatAm. They made inside deals.

My family were insanely wealthy back in Cuba until they fled here. I can trace my heritage back to the 1300s and before on that side of the family. My maternal namesake ancestor was the first mayor/alcalde of Habana and received his name “Sotolongo” from King Ferdinand & Isabella. There is a town named after him north of the Portuguese border.

It’s definitely not what the racist uncle thinks. But I can tell you he doesn’t think he is racist. He thinks he’s “saying it like it is” or something.

He probably thinks you are a lazy person who just wants free handouts from the government.

Meanwhile he’s been trying to scam disability claims for the past 20 years.
Uh, he earned that disability claim with his service in the armed forces. It was hard tax payer funded work!
All my uncles are conservative, it’s a living hell.
my brother is a conservative
My condolences, It’s hard to see it happened to the ones you love
It’s very sad indeed to have your brother hate on all of your friends just because they are lgbt.
I feel that. My family is from the south, and then they moved to a shitty midwest state, brought all their racist bullshit with them. I just stopped going to events, changing my number today even to avoid the texts and calls from people who already know why I don’t talk to them. So far, none of them able-to-be/worth saving, maybe some little cousins but I can’t exactly reach them.
why do we call it “conservative” again? not sure what they’re conservating at this point…

I’m Canadian which has them called the conservative party of Canada, under the guise that they are fiscally conservative.

This is of course not the case but nonetheless it’s the name they chose. It does lead to some confusion much like the National Socialist German Workers’ Party did.

Existing hierarchies and power structures.

If you can force yourself to view everything through that lens, the actions of conservatives make a lot of sense, as do the things that make them angry.

Haven’t attended a big family thanksgiving in a very long time but I used to love. Was great poking an ignorant bear cub, peppering them with facts and questions they’d answer in direct contention with their supposed ideology.

Thanksgiving with family is the worst, for many reasons.

Just let me be alone with my dogs, eating and drinking whatever I want in my quiet, clean house. Now that’s a holiday.

got to have a party dog

www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVYPLP9NSg4

Party Dog ft. Ernie thee Corgi (Music Video) - Tom Cardy

YouTube

My wife begged to go to family gatherings the first year we were together even though I told her exactly what they were like and insisted I would rather do anything else.

It only took one holiday season for her to understand, and we no longer have to tolerate this.

Nah, Thanksgiving is when someone likes to brag that they got some cum inside them.

The modern red-hat wearer would probably use terms like woke, libtard, communist, etc.

But, I would bet that if this same kind of confrontation happened a quarter century ago, the conservatives might be saying “He’s super irrational and emotional”. Like, I think conservatives believe that they see the world as it is, and that liberals are blind to the realities of life. They believe that liberals want to change the world, but don’t understand that it is the way it is for a good reason.

It’s similar to how when women were campaigning for the right to vote, men who didn’t support hat would say things like “I love my wife, but she’s a woman so she’s not capable of making the hard choices.” Or, “My mother is a wonderful person, and full of love, but her emotion clouds her judgment.” Or, “I love my daughter, but she’s too unstable, she jumps on any new trend, running a country requires a steady hand.”

Yes, the reality is that the racist uncle is super racist. But, it’s still worth trying to understand how they see the world. If for no other reason than it’s easier to defeat your enemy if you understand them.

It’s easy to forget that no one is the villain in their own book. While the views ight be now outdated, taking a moment to consider the other person’s perspective, even if it doesn’t align with my own, can really help with reaching a common understanding. There’s a drastic change when you see your ultra racist uncle as a man that’s simply absolutely frightened of change, and that is something I can get on with. Empathy goes a long way.
I am literally wrapping up a novel where the protagonist is the antagonist at the same time. I’m not the first one to write such a story of course, but holy shit did I have to work through some internal trauma to write that story to a suitable ending. I understand why many people may not want to bother…
That sounds very compelling! I’d be very interested in reading it, whenever it’s available. Specially knowing that it involved some soul searching from the author.

It’s easy to forget that no one is the villain in their own book.

Incidentally, why I hate a lot of movies where the villain is Dr. Evil who is part of the Brotherhood of Evil Mutants, or something. Also why I think the Good / Evil alignment axis in D&D is bullshit.

ultra racist uncle as a man that’s simply absolutely frightened of change

Or just someone who grew up in a different time and was taught different things and doesn’t believe that what they were taught is out of date. Similarly, a kid might think they know everything but doesn’t have the wisdom and experience to know that things are more complicated than they seem on the surface. Both can be pretty obnoxious at a thanksgiving dinner table.

Take, for example, a discussion about how voting is done. The racist uncle might think that mail-in voting is a scam, and that the only way to vote should be in-person. He might not understand that poor people in cities sometimes have to wait in line for hours to vote, and that some might not be able to do that while holding down 2 jobs. He might not believe that the small number of polling places was a deliberate choice by a past government to discourage these people from voting.

But, at the same time, the kid might think that online voting is the obvious answer. The kid lives her entire life online and often votes on things. She knows a bit about encryption and has heard of blockchains and thinks that the only people against online voting are luddites who are afraid of technology. She might not understand the danger of being able to prove that you voted and who you voted for. She might not appreciate how sometimes low tech things are much harder to manipulate and fake.

So, there’s “cautious of change happening too quickly” vs. “too eager to embrace change without considering the consequences”. Everybody likes to think that they’re smack dab in the sweet spot between those two things, but everyone else is going to judge them as being too far to one side.

Paradox of tolerance. Do I need to link the wiki? Ok
Paradox of tolerance - Wikipedia