Mastodawn

Damn, while biking to the studio I was looking at a car to make sure it didn't drive in front of me and I missed a lady who decided to cross the zebra ... so I rode into her. Thankfully just a light bounce, no damage and she just walked away after some well deserved yelling at me. But I just... didn't see her at all even though I know this zebra well and always make sure to not be an asshole to pedestrians.

Not even sure what conclusion to draw because I was paying attention, normal speed etc.

TechAltar Nov 19

100% my fault and I'm not trying to deflect, but I am wondering how it could be avoided since I don't think I did anything *intentionally* wrong. It feels like the brain is just an imperfect tool and every now and then something like this becomes inevitable. So I guess just... Better infrastructure? Raise to zebra crossing so I'm forced to slow down more? Better illumination on the zebra so the pedestrian catches my eye better?

Koos Swart Nov 19

@Techaltar
It is still on a pedestrian to pay attention when crossing a zebra.
She can't just assume everyone pays attention.

Peter Brown Nov 19

@koosswart @Techaltar that doesn’t make it permissible to hit a pedestrian at any time, especially not on a zebra crossing. Idiot.

Allpoints Nov 19

@peterbrown @koosswart @Techaltar I once had to alert a fellow pedestrian to not step in front of a moving car. They simply weren't paying attention. Did they have the right of way? Yes. Would it have been the driver's fault if they hit the pedestrian? Yes. Should the pedestrian have looked before stepping off the curb? Also, yes.

Simon K-K Nov 19

@koosswart @Techaltar maybe in your country, but at least in Austria, that is not true.

@Techaltar it is just really difficult to pay attention to everything at once

Too much stuff is going on at once on roads

@Techaltar good of you to take the blame. This is always difficult as it's easy to put part of the blame on anyone involved. At least you know if you were in a car it would have been much, much worse.

I think you're right in that infrastructure to make this safer and force cyclists and drivers to slow down is the best solution here.

Daniel Gomes Nov 19

@Techaltar there needs to be clear separation between rider and car so that the rider does not have to worry about the possibility of a car hitting them. In which case your eyes can be fully ahead of you and looking out for pedestrians. Any system where a driver could potentially be hit by a car is faulty.

Wouter 🛰️Nov 19

@Techaltar "...I was looking at a car to make sure it didn't drive in front of me..."

Well, there's your problem.
Protected bike lanes would allow you to focus on the zebra!
The car is the issue, you are the proxy.

Still, this sucks. I know the guilt of running in to someone even if you did everything to avoid it.

#orangepilled
@notjustbikes

賢進ジェンナ Nov 19

@pa3weg
@Techaltar @notjustbikes

My thots exactly - you were in a bad situation to begin with. You could have clocked the crossing and started barking pre-emptively while you were attempting to protect yourself from a potential collision and possibly have avoided "clobberin time" by coming to a potentially unnecessary stop, but intersections and other infra should be developed such that you can convey your vehicle normally with minimal distraction.

Martin Neumann Nov 19

@Techaltar I think in the end it is all about better infrastructure - making sure you actually don't have to worry that much about cars cutting your bike lane in the first place. However, I have also been there: it feels really bad when as a bike rider you inconvenience pedestrians.

There is no way to avoid 100% human error, without huge investment, probably not worth it. But at least on a bike you are not life threatening dangerous, at least most of the times.

And I'm sure you have learned something new, and you won't fall in same error again.

Bernd Herd Nov 19

@lgsp @Techaltar Humans are unable to be permanently concentrated. I'm an engineer and when we design a machine we are not allowed to design it in a way an unconcentrated worker can be seriously harmed.

If you'd hat hit that pedestrian with a car, the consequences would have been more severe, so biking is more error-forgiving than car driving.

But riding speed matters where pedestrians and bikers can interfere. Maybe you were too fast?

Mallory's Musings & Mischief Nov 19

@Techaltar Our brains don't work as well as it might seem. They glitch all the time.

This sounds like a case of inattentional blindness

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inattentional_blindness

Inattentional blindness - Wikipedia

@Techaltar Accidents happen every so often, I'm not sure overhauling existing systems would be the solution either.

It's important to give grace too. It was an accident, it doesn't make you an asshole biker.

delolzer Nov 19

@Techaltar Sometimes people just fuck up, one of the reason I read that biking>car is that when you do hit someone, they aren't dead. Obviously we want to improve but sometimes its about minizing damages as well!

@Techaltar brains are weird and people make mistakes. You were both able to walk it off because it was a light bounce on a bike. If you made the same mistake in a car or heaven forbid, a pickup truck, that could have ended way worse. Keep on cycling and ride defensively.

Ted Lemon Nov 19

Actually it's not 100% your fault. It's a bad road design. You shouldn't have to split your attention like that.

Allpoints Nov 19

@Techaltar I once saw a presentation where the audience was asked to watch a video of two people passing a ball quickly back and forth. They were asked to count how many times the ball was passed.

In the middle of the video, someone in a gorilla suit walks across the court.

At the end of the video the audience was asked if they noticed the person in the gorilla suit. A significant portion had not.

The take away is, intense focus can cause you to miss obvious things. Part of being human.

gunstick Nov 19

@Techaltar better infrastructure means separated bike path. And then pedestrians will look for cars on the street and then for bikes on the bike path.
Also bicyclists won't need to divert their attention to car drivers cutting them off as they are on a protected lane.

Lucas Treffenstädt Nov 20

@Techaltar maybe the conclusion is that it's great you weren't in a car, because then a moment of distraction would probably have caused that woman a lot more than annoyance. People are imperfect, as you say, so choosing a mode of transportation that has less potential to harm others goes a long way towards preventing serious accidents.

@Techaltar it’s getting awful to use e-transport:/ I mean weather-vise. I still use my e-scooter, but at +1c - going over 25kmh is…. let’s just say I miss my last winter’s 6month adventure in southeast Asia. And will be switching to car-sharing more and more :/
Attention is a bitch, and random things happen - not everything is a teachable moment;)

Homo Particeps Nov 20

@Techaltar
Sometimes unlikely things happen—worst-case or near worst-case scenarios. Its important to have multiple layers of safety. In this case, driving at appropriate speed was the final layer that ensured nothing happened.

Of course, it could have ended badly if it had been a child or an elderly person, but that scenario was very unlikely if you were paying proper attention. And in the end, we can never eliminate the possibility of accidents 100%. That’s just reality.

@Techaltar I assume we are more primed to be aware of the danger for us and less aware of the danger we are to others.

ghostinthemuf Nov 19

@Techaltar Was it already dark ?
Something I realized quickly is that it is beneficial to be multimodal : I hate cars in cities but sometimes I must drive one, and it made me aware that at night, a bike rider in dark clothes without lights is easy to miss. Same goes for pedestrians, from the point of view of a cyclist or driver 🤷‍♂️
So, to answer your question :
- raising awareness, possibly via mandatory training
- better infrastructures that clearly separates cars, bikes and pedestrians

Peter Brown Nov 19

@ghostinthemuf @Techaltar here we go!
Classic victim blaming-you should have been wearing reflective clothing.
Watch the video. The brain eliminates things from your sight and no amount of pretty colours stop that happening.

HowToPhil Nov 19

@Techaltar Accidents happen and are infinitely more survivable when it's a bike and a pedestrian rather than a car and a pedestrian

Peter Brown Nov 19

@howtophil @Techaltar so that’s okay then

HowToPhil Nov 19

@peterbrown @Techaltar Yeah. I think it's a good lesson to spread.

A. No matter how careful you are, accidents happen. That is why they are called accidents and not planned-incidents.
B. Bicycles are far safer for everyone involved WHEN an accident happens.

ghostinthemuf Nov 19

@Techaltar
Btw, the separation of lines for different modes will become more and more crucial since nowadays, every bike seems destined to become electric, thus more powerful and thus more dangerous
Cars and bikes don't go well together.
Neither do e-bikes and pedestrians.

Peter Brown Nov 19

@ghostinthemuf @Techaltar that is absolutely true. Wheeled vehicles do not move in the same way as two legged ones.
Mixing two types is extremely dangerous. And within the wheeled vehicles the fastest should change down to the speed of the slowest otherwise the same danger exists.

A strictly imposed 20 limit allows cyclists to mingle safely with other wheeled vehicles, leaving the footways for the pedestrians.

@Techaltar that’s why in driving school you’re taught to reduce the speed when approaching a zebra. That would be the best thing on the bike as well. Because it could be said that “normal speed”, whatever it is, isn’t the appropriate speed if it doesn’t allow you to break in time to avoid a collision.

At the same time that would obviously result in an increased risk of being rear-ended yourself by whoever is behind you.

ascii_only Nov 19

@Techaltar This video is good explanation why some objects become invisible - https://youtu.be/x94PGgYKHQ0

Invisibility Training for Motorcyclists

YouTube

Peter Brown Nov 19

@ascii_only @Techaltar it is indeed very good. Noted that movement is important; the sequential turn signals now fitted to cars could usefully be integrated into the handlebars of motorcycles and bicycles. A continuous sequential flashing light from the centre to the perimeter would create the impression of an exploding object in the peripheral vision of the subconscious brain, which would bring it immediately into the conscious brain.

Does anybody produce such a thing?

Pedestriansfirst Nov 19

@Techaltar “Between 2013 and 2020, there were a total of 30 deaths from collisions between cyclists and pedestrians, an annual average of 3.8. In the same 2013–2020 period, there was an average of 137 pedestrians seriously injured by cyclists each year.” UK figures. Not insignificant numbers. Take care around pedestrians you biker people!

Hans van Schoot Nov 19

@Techaltar conclude that traffic is a non-perfect system, hence we need safety margins. You seem to have those margins automated (proper speed etc), otherwise there would have been hard contact and damage.
All participants in traffic need to be ready to compensate for other people's mistakes. Consider the yelling a wake up call ;-)

In Dutch we have a saying "voorrang moet je krijgen, niet nemen", which roughly translates to "the right of way is not to be claimed, but must be granted".

Michael ᚋᚔᚉᚆᚓᚐᚂ Nov 19

@Techaltar The conclusion to draw is humans make mistakes.

And better to make a mistake on a 12 kg bike, than in a 2,500 kg SUV.

ReindeR Rustema Nov 19

@Techaltar Can you give us the streetview location for good judgement. Probably the infrastructure is to blame.

@Techaltar
My takeaway from things like this are that (1) humans are fallible and our transportation systems should allow for human mistakes without killing people, and (2) a bike-pedestrian collision is so much less damaging than a car crash. I’m glad you both walked away!