Mastodawn

Secret Music 🎵 [they/them]

A reminder that it's always been this way, the manosphere is just the latest version of it

https://piefed.blahaj.zone/c/witchesvspatriarchy/p/392179/a-reminder-that-even-if-you-don-t-dye-your-hair-blue-and-pierce-your-septum-it-ll

A reminder that it's always been this way, the manosphere is just the latest version of it

![Blåhaj Piefed](https://piefed.blahaj.zone/static/media/ShonkyLogo.webp "Blåhaj Piefed") Blåhaj Piefed is brought to you by the kind folk at Blåhaj Zone, and while anyone is free to register for an account here, please bear in mind that this is a server that is very protective of our minority members and bigotry of any variety will be squashed with great prejudice. We have a public matrix channel for all Blahaj users at [#blahaj:chat.blahaj.zone](https://matrix.to/#/#blahaj:chat.blahaj.zone) We also have a matrix channel for gender diverse folk and our allies! If you're already a matrix user, you can head straight to our application room https://matrix.to/#/#gv-apply:chat.blahaj.zone, or by searching for #gv-apply:chat.blahaj.zone from within your matrix client. If you're new to matrix, you can find some more details and an instruction video on how to get up and running here https://chat.blahaj.zone/c/genderverse/ **Community Guidelines** Blåhaj Piefed is a space where everyone should feel able to participate safely, and to that end, our community is built on the guiding philosophies of empathy, inclusion and acceptance. *Empathy* We want our community members to be guided by compassion and empathy for others. Examples of behaviour that are contrary to this philosophy are personal attacks, insults, doxing etc. If your comment is designed to hurt someone, this isn't the space for it. *Inclusion and Acceptance* Embracing inclusion and acceptance means listening when people tell you who they are and what their needs are. It means not telling people that you know their experiences better than they do. It means not gatekeeping experiences of identities of others. It means no bigotry such as racism, sexism, anti LGBT commentary, ableism etc. It means doing your best to ensure that you don't over-talk the voices of folk who don't share your privileges. **Supporting Blåhaj Piefed** After much hesitation, [we have a Ko Fi](https://ko-fi.com/blahajzone) to enable people to help with supporting some of the running costs associated with our instances. Providing a safe space for our community is the goal, so please only consider donating if you are in a position to do so without *any* financial stress. **Mascot and logo** Find out about our mascot Shonky (they/them) who appears on our site logo [here](https://github.com/blahaj-zone/shonky).

Secret Music 🎵 [they/them]Nov 6

*Edited the absolute garbage title that I had for this post at first.

I don’t get it, both are cool?

Secret Music 🎵 [they/them]Nov 6

I would say that the point is this kind of sentiment from the manosphere, for example just these quotes by Andrew Tate:

Look familiar? Good for you if you get to live your middle upper class cottagecore dream with a hipster lumberjack that brings home everything you’ll ever need. That definitely sounds pretty awesome.

But mostly this is about control and power of men over women, especially for women that aren’t in the economic class to get to have shelves of unread books and the luxury of spending all of their time doing arts and crafts and making tiktok videos.

We shouldn’t publicize Andrew Tate, he’s like a malware virus

I see it as a commentary on how quickly times were changing back then. What’s telling is what some are reading into it.

Frankly from the behavior I’ve seen from human men… well, Earth would probably be better if they were all eradicated. And I say that as a human male.

Feydaikin Nov 6

And without men, women would die out in a matter of days. And thus ends the human race.

lumpenproletariat Nov 6

Dinosaurs rule the earth.

Feydaikin Nov 6

We have a few steps to take before that point, but that would be cool.

I’m willing to sacrifice the human race for the return of Dinos.

Days?

Feydaikin Nov 6

We’re talking half the worlds population just up and dying. Including most of people that see to the basics society needs to even function. Just look at how fast it went south when the Garbage Collectors in England went on strike. That was just One job out of a handful of very necessary jobs. Now imagine no power, no water, food spoiling without fresh food coming in. No one to take the trash away, No one to bury the dead… The list goes on.

Just losing half the population would be devastating. But even worse if it’s all the people that make the cogs of society turn. And that just happens to be predominantly male jobs.

It’s nothing against women. It’s just that men are very much needed to make any of this work.

CoolThingAboutMe Nov 6

Society collapsing due to half the population disappearing, yes.

All women dying out in “days” without men, no. 😂

Even if in work like water treatment and electricity generation/distribution that are mostly men, there are still plenty of women. And huge swathes of the world live without these things anyway. It seems like you’re only thinking of cities becoming unlivable, or only thinking of a very narrow microcosm of women.

As someone who has known extremely competent and intelligent women all through my life, and also lived in really remote and rural places, I can say with absolute certainty that if men just blipped out of existence one day women would be just fine.

Yes, life wouldn’t continue as it had. There would be changes. Just like there would be changes for men if women all disappeared. But to suggest that women would just let rubbish and bodies pile up, and that they wouldn’t give any thought to or take action about food supply is delusional.

Feydaikin Nov 6

I don’t think it would. Again, It’s nothing against women. I have met incredibly competent and strong women as well. But they are a minority in many of these fields. We’re talking single digit percents. Those few would likely live a bit longer than your standard 20 year old cashier, but it’ll all be going one way.

Anywho, humanity would be doomed if either men or women just disappeared. It’s just a hypothetical of which sex would survive longer. Not too serious. I just dislike when people say shit like: “The world would be better if all the [insert people] just died.”

Ya know, I’m not so sure that the old comic is necessarily just criticizing flapper girls. The way I understand the bottom text is “These are the qualities that women of these generations need to have to make men want to marry them”, so I think it’s also saying that the young men nowadays have wacky tastes as well.

If you want to be even more charitable, which is probably undeserved I know, there’s nothing explicitly written in the comic to indicate that the artist thinks one side is necessarily better than the other, just that things are different now than they used to be. It’s possible that it was created by a young guy who thinks the stuff on the left is lame and old fashioned and the stuff listed on the right kicks ass.

Fuck the manosphere though.

I see no criticism in the comic at all. Young men of the previous generation wanted the girl on the left, now they want the flapper. It’s just a comment on how far and how quickly society was changing 100-years ago.

Also, if the artist were making fun of the flapper they wouldn’t have drawn her as so attractive. Maybe it’s just me, but she’s leaving me hot and bothered. :)

I think thats a part of the cultural shift. Back then, the way the “flapper”(ive never heard that term, what does it mean?) was dressing was provacative, and by drawing her that way they are attempting to shame her i believe. They are listing what these women are able to do, and from the authors perspective, women NEED to be able to do things on the left. Whereas its a mans job to do the things on the right. Theyre also trying to say that the new generation can’t effectively manage a household, which I personally find hilarious, because the author clearly missed the entire point. Women were fed up with being forced into traditional wife roles. They werent interested in “running the household” any more, which the author seems to not understand.

In a way its a good thing that our society has changed so much its difficult to even tell that the authors goal was sexism. That brand of sexism is so alien now that most people dont even realize its supposed to be sexist, and instead just comes off as cool.

“Flapper” was a 1920s subculture of women that was, well, exactly what’s pictured. The original etymology is unclear, as far as I know.

Didn’t know the etymology, you made me look!

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flapper

Sounds reasonable to me. Wonder if there’s any tie in with “chick” as slang for “girl”.

Flapper - Wikipedia

Really telling how much you’re reading into this. I wonder what your opinion would have been if you had not seen the editorial bit at the top, only the cartoon. I feel both you and OP are looking for offense when I feel there is none to be had.

Again, if the artist wanted to portray flappers as unattractive, a poor option for a marriageable young man, he could have easily depicted her as sickly and gross. If anything, it’s almost like he’s making fun of the demure, old fashioned girl. But that’s my modern sensibilities and attractions speaking. :)

BTW, flappers were a sort of 1920s women’s subculture. Google it and hit “pictures” and you’ll instantly get the look. They were young rebels, breaking out of the female mold they had been forced into. For example, women simply did not smoke before the 20s, strictly a male thing. Not sure if this was an American culture or if the Europeans shared, or likely, started it. From what I gather, flappers were pretty common, nothing weird at the time. 🤷

Yeah, i shouldve better clarified that I was speaking from my personal suspicions, not from a place of fact. As for the inclusion of the top context, i dont think it wouldve changed anything for me. My assumption that the comic is intended to cause harm is based on my assumption of the comics age, and my knowledge of how women were genrally seen as property back then. If it were a modern comic, I would be campaigning for the benefit of the doubt until proven otherwise. But given the history and the likelihood that the author will not be offended since theyre dead, im not particularly incentivised to find nuance from an era of blatant disgusting behavior.

I appreciate the info on flappers. I don’t know anything about them but a couple people were telling me more. With that context, that flappers wasnt a slur or demeaning, i could much more easily see the comic going either way.

Yes, women were treated a second-class citizens! American women couldn’t even vote until 1920. And I think that’s exactly where the artist is coming from, highlighting these changes without judgement. One more time, he could have made the flapper unattractive. (I’ll allow maybe my personal preferences are at play here. :) Long, thin, knee-high hose, cute headband, small breasts, independent, parties, sexy jewelry, yes please!) I feel you’re mixing Victorian, Gilded Age and Mauve Decade (much the same) women’s rights into the thing. The 1920s were a breakout point for women. The next advance would be women in the WWII workforce and the next being birth control in the 1960s.

Very radical times not only for women’s rights, but for all of us. Often commented that the first two decades of the 20th century was the Cambrian Explosion of mechanical items. Look at all the idiotic inventions of the time. Nuts. And we went from Kitty Hawk to dogfights in a mere 10-years!

We’d just come off our first taste of mechanized warfare, worst war in history yet lost more lives to the Spanish Flu and had just gone into Prohibition. Party hearty, but keep it on the down low.

I feel privileged as GenX. Much like 100-years ago, my generation straddled a radical divide in tech and social norms. Guess that’s the new normal though. 🤷🏻

TrackinDaKraken Nov 6

Admit it, you had to search “zither”.

Zither - Wikipedia

Close! I had a fuzzy notion of a flat instrument with a bunch of strings that you hold in your lap.

Rozaŭtuno Nov 7

They should kiss.

𝕱𝖎𝖗𝖊𝖜𝖎𝖙𝖈𝖍 Nov 7

Why do you think the right has been trying to make the tradwife movement a thing? They yearn for a time when we were considered property.