return2ozmaICE's 'Frightening' Facial Recognition App is Scanning US Citizens Without Their Consent
ProxSo look,v this is just gonna happen. It’s legal to film people in public (in the US) and we all know stores, etc. are already using facial recognition.
The real problem here is the (apparent, though almost certainly assured) lack of responsible use of the data. Scanning faces means you also get time, place, and event/activity, and that citizens then have zero control of what the govt does with this, who they share it with (e.g. Palantir), etc. All prior collection of US person data required appropriate approval, limited scope of access, and timely adjudication/disposal. But ICE is (again, apparently) operating outside the law.
touristThat’s the beautiful thing, we just print more so people don’t notice how much we actually spend on things. Inflation goes brr, but people blame the corpos.
They use facial recognition on us while we are not allowed to see their faces.
These guys need de-masking.
TheFeatureCreatureThey need lifetimes in prison for treason and domestic terrorism.
We will never get there while they are anonymous. The path to prison starts with de-masking.
You can’t prosecute what has no identification.
Every single one of them has a timecard they’re punching with a name, collective punishment against the entire agency should be on the table.
Again though, until you connect their actions on the street, to a face, prosecution will never be possible.
The need unmasking, on the street.
Charge them all!!
Deport all alien, some of them are criminal.
Imprison all of ice, some of them are criminal.
Same logic.
Not all foreigners are criminals. But all members of a gang are gang members.
Isn’t it illegal in US, to be a member of an organization that has an obviously criminal purpose and/or obviously criminal methods?
Do not know law in us, but sound about right. Thank you for input, only saw corporal punishment, not your perspective.
With their mask-wearing they’re practically advertising their methods. We should take the clue. Everyone still has their COVID masks, right?
Facial recognition can use nose bridge characteristics, eye distance, eye angle, eye color, etc.
Gait detection can also fingerprint.
Document everything and there will be accountability.
If possible, use a zoom lens and get closeups of their eyes. They are unique signatures.
Eh, I’m fine with them wearing masks. I’m not fine with them breaking the law and not being accountable. If they wear masks (or even if they don’t), they need to be ready to show ID and recite their badge number.
Every officer has a badge number that uniquely identifies then, and they are legally required to provide that information. When filing a complaint or a lawsuit, you’ll provide their name and badge number. If they refuse, you provide as much information as you can (area, time of day, type of vehicle, vehicle number, other officers and badge numbers involved, etc) so they can track the officer down.
I don’t know how ICE works specifically, but many police departments require their officers to carry business cards with that information and hand them out upon request.
Civilians have a right to verify that the people involved are actually officers and have a right to identify individual offices to report misconduct.
I don’t care if officers wear masks, I only care that they can be uniquely identified.
Have you ever seen an example of an ICE agent sharing a badge number on video from this year?
Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.
Have you seen an instance where a citizen or legal immigrant calmly asked for name and badge number and was refused?
Yes I have. There are only videos of people asking for badge numbers without getting a response. There are none where a badge number is given.
My point was that we need to see their faces because they will not identify themselves. Thats a big problem if we ever pull ourselves out of this; they will attempt to rejoin society like nothing happdened after illegally brutalizing american citizens. We need to know who the traitors are.
There are only videos of people asking for badge numbers without getting a response.
Are these suspects or protestors? Because the videos I’ve seen are protestors. Police must reveal their identity to suspects due to the fourth amendment, but not to the general public.
My point is suspects have a right to know who their accusers are. Whether they share that with others (and they should) is up to them. Having the public know their identities just opens them up to vigilante justice, having suspect know their identities keeps them accountable to the rule of law.
Both. But if you’re “arresting” a protester haven’t they become a defacto suspect? Or are they arresting protesters for other reasons?
All other law enforcment in america is maskless. Why would ICE need special protections from vigilate justice?
But if you’re “arresting” a protester haven’t they become a defacto suspect?
Yes, if you’re detained or arrested, you have the right to know the name and badge number of the person detaining or arresting you.
The videos I’ve seen aren’t that, they’re merely protesters asking on behalf of someone else. If there is a video where it’s clear that someone being detained or arrested by police isn’t given that information, then I’d be very interested because that would be a pretty clear-cut 4th amendment violation.
All other law enforcment in america is maskless
SWAT wears masks.
Sure but we’d need an unedited clip from the streets to the jail cell to prove they weren’t provided that information. Plus how long after the arrest do they have?
Seizing people off the street without an arrest warrant or probable cause is already a clear-cut 4th amendment violation. What do you do with that?
First contact to detainment/arrest is sufficient, and police body cam footage is plenty.
And unfortunately, police can legally detain you up to 48 hours without charging you. There are rules around this, but generally speaking, police have 24 hours to prove they had probable cause and turn the detention into an arrest, otherwise they must release you.
So if police have probable cause to detain or arrest some people in a protest, they can detain far more until they can review footage to complete their investigation before deciding whether to arrest or release individuals.
I’m mostly looking for a smoking gun here. We know ICE has incorrectly arrested citizens and legal immigrants, I want to know if they have broken the law in other ways too. Arresting the wrong person is one thing, denying due process is another thing entirely.
No, they are law enforcement and should be readily identifiable the community they serve. Including their face. Also being masked makes it harder for the people they’re interacting with to understand what they’re saying. They lose all the non-verbal communication that comes from the face. Them being masked has absolutely zero upside to the public.
Including their face.
I don’t think this is necessary. What does seeing an officer’s face do that a name and badge number doesn’t? What about undercover cops? What about the winter when it’s cold?
I think it should only be required that they declare on what authority they’re acting when making official actions, like a stop, detainment, or arrest. They should give their name and badge number upon request, in a form that works for the asker (written or verbal, asker’s preference).
If we ban law enforcement from wearing masks, that opens the door to banning masks in public. I get that police should follow higher standards (I’m absolutely in favor of ending qualified immunity), but IMO the rules should merely be that police must self identify in a way the public knows they’re legitimate law enforcement when using the authority of their position.
Witnesses who are too far away to see their identification can still see their face to ID them. Undercover cops are a different situation than what ICE is doing and really shouldn’t be making arrests IMO. In winter they can take their mask off to interact with people.
If we ban law enforcement from wearing masks, that opens the door to banning masks in public.
It doesn’t. The general public doesn’t need to be identifiable at all times like cops do.
Witnesses who are too far away to see their identification can still see their face to ID them.
Sure, I just don’t think that’s a reasonable thing to require at all times.
Instead, the public should be free to approach to a safe distance to film, and then attempt to talk with law enforcement when safe. A police officer is required to identify themselves to the suspect due to the fourth amendment. Whether they are required to identify themselves to the public is up to local law, court precedent, and agency policy.
The general public doesn’t need to be identifiable at all times like cops do.
Neither do. Police only need to be identifiable when using their authority, such as when making an arrest or dealing with protests, and in the latter case, only agency affiliation is necessary.
Sure, I just don’t think that’s a reasonable thing to require at all times.
It is. There’s literally no reason they ever need to be masked.
Neither do. Police only need to be identifiable when using their authority, such as when making an arrest or dealing with protests, and in the latter case, only agency affiliation is necessary.
Disagree. Police serve the public. If they are working they should all be identifiable so they can’t step out of line. Especially during protests. Exceptions being made for specific circumstances where they are undercover.
There’s literally no reason they ever need to be masked.
Cops have rights too. If an officer wants to wear a mask, I don’t see any reason to deny them that. They must, however, identify themselves, the risk of someone pretending to be law enforcement is too great.
Police serve the public. If they are working they should all be identifiable
Agreed, I just don’t think masks are the issue here. IMO, officers involved in protest duty should have their badge number on their uniform in a big enough font for a camera to pick up. Likewise, body cameras should be on and recording the entire time.
They refuse to be held accountable or hold each other accountable across the board. They deserve nothing but to do their fucking job exactly as the public who they serve wills it. If they don’t like it they can quit. They have abused any and every bit of latitude they’ve been given since the inception of police forces. They don’t need masks, they don’t need privacy while they’re working. Any who want to hide should be fired immediately. If they don’t have enough integrity to stand behind their actions they’re in the wrong line of work.
They can turn off body cams, or refuse to answer questions of bystanders, or hide their badge numbers. They do it all the time. If they aren’t allowed to wear masks at least people will have their faces to go off.
The solution IMO isn’t to make a bunch of rules to try to make them act better, the solution is to increase accountability. That means:
- end qualified immunity - when tried in court, they should be held to similar standards as citizens
- change how investigations of police officers happens - AG role should change to protect the people, not the state
At the same time, we should increase salaries of police officers to encourage good cops instead of power hungry cops, and perhaps have cash rewards for officers who turn in other officers for criminal violations.
If we focus on laws to force police to act better, they’ll just give themselves a pass.
Again, I don’t think it really does.
Let’s say I identify an officer that shot a pepper ball at a protester. Let’s say I report it to the news, file a complaint, and file a lawsuit. Here’s what I expect to happen:
- news agency runs a small piece on the incident, perhaps naming the officer, perhaps not
- police does an internal investigation and determines the officer was acting within their duties
- lawsuit is dropped because I don’t have standing (I’m not the victim), and if I did have standing, the agency might get fined and the officer retains their position
That’s not real accountability IMO, real accountability would result in the officer getting investigated by the AG or something and potentially jailed for using excessive force.
Reminder to everyone that it is COVID season, so wear a mask for your health.
And flu and cold season. Consider wearing gloves to keep your hands safe from diseases as well. Consider tinted glasses as well to keep the sun out of your eyes, and a hat or hoodie to protect from rain or snow.
Just basic health things, completely unrelated to cameras or anything.
We do like staying healthy
You may also consider carrying a firearm. It’s hibernation season, and the bears can get a bit frisky.
Bear spray also works on wild dogs, which are increasingly becoming a problem in suburban areas.
Nice! And it’s far less illegal of you happen to go to a national or state park or something. Good idea, I have some bear spray from when I went to Glacier National Park, I’ll have to bring them around in case I meet a particularly nasty one.
Wild hogs ain’t no joke either.
Lol. You never know when one might jump out at you from the forest or something. Don’t get too close though, just spray and run away.
DandomRudeDoes the US legal system still exist in any sense that it should in a democracy?
I ask because I don’t understand how all this is possible in a constitutional state: Masked brutes who arbitrarily kidnap people on the open street without even identifying themselves, people who are interned without due process and then often simply disappear without a trace in the administrative system, total surveillance without cause, and many other massive violations that the US legal system seems to enable rather than prevent, as it should.
All of this already looks very much like a dictatorship to me, i.e., an unjust state, as none of this can be possible with a democratic constitution - at least not with one that is actually upheld by the legal system.
It does not. The legal system has essentially lost the ability to be a check on the power of the executive branch. Partly because of regulatory capture and partly because of the speed at which the executive branch is acting illegally - it takes time to build cases and the jsutice system can’t keep up.
At a certain point, we should just arrest the President, Vice President, and cabinet while we work through the paperwork. I don’t know much about Chuck Grassley, but he can run things while we get through the trials.
No.
The people are so gaslit they will attack you if you say otherwise.
I wonder why our allies aren’t helping at this point. Surely they understand where this goes if they don’t stop it sooner rather than later. Europe is laughing at Americans ignoring the tiger that will eat them soon.
Why your “allies” don’t help? Well, the USA shouldn’t have spit in our face to begin with.
We have enough to fix in our own country with your stupid “USA first” moves.
Endure your own shit while we endure your shit…
It wasn’t people from America who made Native Americans move and brought slaves over…
I am German and I am appalled by the behavior of our government: Instead of standing up to Trump and his henchmen and becoming independent from the US, they are kowtowing to him, even though it is completely obvious how little Trump cares about his so called allies—and since the US is nowadays blackmailing Europe with tariffs and so on, it takes a lot of imagination to still call them allies, especially when all halfway rational people are particularly disturbed by all the inhuman Nazi shit.
Unfortunately, however, the weak position of the current German government was already absolutely foreseeable before the last federal election, because the Chancellor, Friedrich Merz, is actually more of a US lobbyist than a politician (among other things, he was chairman of the supervisory board of Black Rock Germany until 2022 and held various positions in business lobby organizations such as the Atlantik-Brücke – a conservative think tank). Nothing can be expected from these people, although I unfortunately also think that US citizens should not count on any external support anyway.
You have the most powerful military in the world and basically are your allies’ (former) protective power. There is no outside help coming because (among other reasons of course) nobody is physically able to help you.
IDK what to do about the gaslighting by Fox and right wing media… Too many people trust things without verification and it’s the reason our country is in such despair right now
Altima NEOIt does but we’re in an act first ask questions later regime.
Yup, it just takes forever to get anything through the courts. We’re just now getting to the tariff nonsense, for example.
「黃家駒 Wong Ka Kui」 | (aka: 鳳凰院 凶真 Hououin Kyouma)Does the US legal system still exist in any sense that it should in a democracy?
Hybrid Regime is how I describe the US. It’s a weird limbo state between Democracy and Autocracy (because if this was a full autocracy, I wouldn’t have access to Lemmy and most anti-trump media would’ve been raided and shut down). Afaik, they aren’t doing exit controls yet.
The major difference between the US and PRC (where I came from), is that Americans seem more willing to resist the government compared to mainland Chinese, and these demonstrations in the US are actually being reported on, in China, its absolute silence, nobody even knows about the very little protests that do happen.
But, by the time EU starts accepting American Refugees, it’d probabably be too late and they would’ve imposed exit controls by then.
Idk what will happen, only time will tell.
NotSteve_Nobody bothered to make federal agents wearing masks illegal, and eventually they decided to do it.