Nina KalininaOct 17
The weekend is close, I don't feel like I have energy to work on my little(?) game, so I'm going to try and do the weirdest Windows 3.1 setup out there.
Show threadNina KalininaOct 17

First step of getting cool Win 3.1 install these days is VBESVGA driver. Kudos to https://github.com/PluMGMK/vbesvga.drv

I think 16M colours looks pretty great, but it is noticeably slower than 256 colours.

Show threadNina KalininaOct 17
If you follow me, you probably know that there's an open-source clone of Windows NewShell for 3.1 called Calmira. There's a version called Calmira XP, which looks really out of the place on 3.1. But my goal is to get the most unhinged, sick, abominable, overpowered and power-hungry Windows 3.1 install, so here we go.
Show threadNina KalininaOct 17

A bit of a technicality, but it makes a lot of sense in terms of UX: doslfn to add Long File Name support in Calmira, and IFA to add Long File Name support to the basic Windows applications.

And while we're at it, let's get some sort of a wallpaper. This one is 256 colours, because Paintbrush 3.x and Paint 95+ aren't really compatible, and the only way I can convert images to this old system (for now) is ImageMagick gif 256 colours -> pcx -> bmp

Show threadNina KalininaOct 17

Shocking Windows 3.1 development continues. Now I have win32s, which will allow me to run some Win32 applications on top of DOS and Win16 kernel. Freecell looks like any other app, but it is Win32 app, very MVP.

And IE 5.0 is being installed but still needs a bit of tweaking. It has a 128-bit encryption module, but it's useless, because no one supports SSL anymore.

Note WinRAR behind the IE50 installer.

Show threadNina KalininaOct 17

It's taking longer than it should have, but I have working TCP/IP on Windows 3.1, and it plays along with IE 5.0. Google stopped supporting IE5 recently, but I learned about Wiby not that long ago, and I like it.

But we're far from being done.

Show threadNina KalininaOct 17
Okay, this is the most cursed Windows 3.1 screenshot so far. I'm not saying things are working, but I'm not saying they're not working either. Sort of a limbo.
Show threadNina KalininaOct 18
Sometimes it feels like Microsoft intentionally made Win32s incompatible with lots of apps (or the other way around). Only Calc and Real Audio player from Windows 95 are working with Win32s - even Freecell doesn't. Despite it being almost the same thing as Freecell shipped with Win32s itself.
Show threadNina KalininaOct 18
Woah, a CD-based game for Windows 3.1! Released in 1997, "Pilot Bros" comes with win32s on the CD, and has music, video and audio that all work under Windows 3.1. From what I can tell, it is highly inspired by Gobliiins
Show threadNina KalininaOct 18

Day 2 of abnormal Windows 3.1 functions. Internet Explorer 5 decided to stop working after I tweaked some thing, so it's Netscape Navigator time. It looks so sleek...

(What you're seeing here is Windows 3.1 with Calmira XP shell that adds taskbar and desktop, and a VBESVGA driver)

Show threadNina KalininaOct 18
There is an X11 server for Windows 3.1, but it only supports telnet or rsh. I think some of my X11 apps would have been working, if only my network was working correctly.
Show threadNina Kalinina
While I'm thinking about other unhinged things to do with this half-broken unusual Windows 3.1 install, here's some QuickTime for you.
Oct 18 at 10:51amWeb
Show threadNina KalininaOct 18
As mentioned before, Windows 3.1 has very limited compatibility with 32-bit applications, including Paint from Windows 95. However, it can run Paint from Chicago just fine. It cannot run Chicago's Notepad, but Paint sort of works. Neat.
Show threadNina KalininaOct 18

Okay, this totally should count as an abomination. I associate Space Cadet Pinball with Windows XP, because it was not shipped with Windows 95/98 by default.

But this Space Cadet is actually a win32s application from 1995, and works just fine on Windows 3.1. It looks especially "normal" because of Calmira XP adding Windows XP decorations to Win 3.1. The only tell is window title bars. Woah.

Show threadNina KalininaOct 18
Okay, I figured out what to do with the network, and I have semi-working X11 on my abomination of Windows 3.1. It is so unstable I had to reboot at least 20 times to take these two screenshots.
Show threadNina KalininaOct 18

I was trying to do something about Java on Windows 3.1, and I sort of did. First things first, JRE doesn't work. Even when forced to install, it doesn't work. It relies on MSVCRT and long file name support in the kernel, which... Is not great. But I won't give up.

Both Netscape 4 and IE 5.0 have Java 1.1 support, so I can run some Java programs if I explain the browsers how to run them.

But there aren't that many Java 1.1 programs, are there...

Show threadNina KalininaOct 18

While I'm thinking about Java on Windows 3.1, here are some more unusual things for my cursed setup: fMSX, an emulator of an MSX/MSX2 home computer, and notGNU - an emacs clone.

There are many interesting programs for Win3.1 I'm skipping for now, like Photoshop, or CorelDraw, or POVRAY and various 3D editors, or MathCad, or AutoCAD...

But those are programs that people used to run "normally". This time I'm trying to find rare gems or do things that most people won't :D

Show threadNina KalininaOct 18
Windows 95 Paint still couldn't handle my 24-bit BMP, so I had to install Photoshop and convert the wallpaper into Win-3.1-24-bit-BMP with it. Now this Win3.1 install is 20% cooler.
Show threadwyattOct 18
@nina_kali_nina MLP dogwhistle, nice.
Show threadARGVMI~1.PIFOct 18

@nina_kali_nina

Huh. I didn't know 95 changed the BMP format.

Show threadNina KalininaOct 18
@argv_minus_one worse still, Windows 3.0 and Windows 3.1 BMP aren't always compatible. And then there are OS/2 BMPs...
Show threadARGVMI~1.PIFOct 18

@nina_kali_nina

Was it *backward* compatible, at least?

(By “backward compatible” I mean Windows 95 can read BMPs from 3.1, 3.1 can read BMPs from 3.0, etc.)

Show threadNina KalininaOct 18
@argv_minus_one generally, yes!
Show threadqwaggaOct 25

@nina_kali_nina @argv_minus_one

A reference on BMP types.
Includes a version that is: vaguely specified, never seen in a wild, not created by anything, read by a single program (from the reference's author).
Yes, it's never that simple!

https://entropymine.com/jason/bmpsuite/bmpsuite/html/bmpsuite.html

BMP Suite Image List

Show threadqwaggaOct 25
@nina_kali_nina @argv_minus_one
Note: the long sentence above was written from memory and turns out I can't actually support it with sources.
I probably remember an older release and current one doesn't have those claims. Presumably some copies and/or programs were found in the wild in the meantime.
Show threadGabriele SveltoOct 25
@qwagga @nina_kali_nina @argv_minus_one the only format that rivals the sheer amount of variation in BMP files is PCM audio
Show threadSashaOct 18
@nina_kali_nina ok, that is cool
Show threadalberto ⁂Oct 18

@nina_kali_nina I said it yesterday and I say it today, this is soooo coooool!!

Please never delete this installation (is it a VM? or actual hardware?)

Show threadNina KalininaOct 18
@apposada thanks! I think this installation is meant to be a lesson and not an artifact:) so, most likely, I'll delete it one day~
Show threadAngela ScholderOct 18
@nina_kali_nina Hmmmmm...... Now I have the feeling that I really should fix my old tower...
The main board in it died, but I already had a replacement.
Exchangeable disks, at least disk sets for W98SE and DR-DOS.
Show threadNina KalininaOct 19
@AngelaScholder why not multiple disks and multiboot? ;)
Show threadAngela ScholderOct 19

@nina_kali_nina LOL! Different era. That system in the configuration it is, I guess is 25 years old. Maybe a little less.
The tower originally is from '93, initially an AMD 386DX40 with an extra large 170MB disk, via 486DX4-120 to I think it's a P166 installed now.
Disks probably between 1.2GB to 2GB.

Yep, that tower definitely has some history.
Doing the changes, install new things incl. OS certainly was a lot of fun and learning.
Also Red Hat a while in the 90s, OS/2 2.1, Warp.

Show threadxyhhx 🔻Oct 19
@nina_kali_nina this has been a rollercoaster of emotions
Show threadPulkoMandyOct 18
@nina_kali_nina why a clone of emacs when you can set up vim? According to https://www.mirrorservice.org/pub/vim/pc/README vim 7.3 was the last version to ship a win32s build. I'm not sure if you can just run the setup program or if you need to assemble an install from the binary and runtime archives
Show threadNina KalininaOct 18
@pulkomandy I have real Emacs too, it just doesn't work. :(
Show threadPulkoMandyOct 18
@nina_kali_nina it looks like there is a version of Smalltalk also: https://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=application&iId=2244
Show threadNina KalininaOct 18
@pulkomandy Not too surprising! What's more surprising is C# can be compiled for 3.1 :)
Show threadCursed SiliconOct 18
@nina_kali_nina I wonder if you could get the original 2001 release of RuneScape to run in Java 1.1
Show threadNina KalininaOct 18
@CursedSilicon if it used to run on Java 1.1 and available, it would run!
Show threadCursed SiliconOct 18

@nina_kali_nina *Apparently* (read: Googling it real quick) it needed Java 1.1.5?

Or at least the RS Wiki linked to that version

So maaaaaybe?

Show threadNina KalininaOct 18
@CursedSilicon that could be a biiit difficult but I'll see what I can do
Show threadCursed SiliconOct 18
@nina_kali_nina If you can dig up an old enough client build it might just work. At least in IE 5
Show threadStéphane Charette 🇨🇦Oct 18
@nina_kali_nina At the time, Microsoft wanted people to move from 3.1 to 95, so they intentionally did not support Java on 3.1. But IBM still had OS/2 with Windows support, so IBM itself came out with a version of Java for Windows 3.x. MS was pissed. So there might be the IBM version of Java still floating out there somewhere.
Show threadNina KalininaOct 18
@charette Editing for clarity: in 1996-97? Absolutely. But shortly after both MS and Netscape shipped browsers with JVM, so, my IE 5 has Java support, and in fact better Java support than Windows 95B had out of the box. :> But for some reason it doesn't want to accept signed jar files.
Show threadStéphane Charette 🇨🇦Oct 18
@nina_kali_nina https://www.infoworld.com/article/2170004/ibm-brings-java-to-windows-3-1.html
IBM brings Java to Windows 3.1

David Gee, Java marketing coordinator for IBM, said that what they have online is fairly early beta code, which for the most part performs as expected for a beta, but they are continuing development to make it more stable. "We are working feverishly to port HotJava to the environment so that you can browse without Netscape," said Gee. "Our feeling is that if you want to experience the full effect of Java-enhanced Web, IBM will bring it to you. I classify it as bringing Java to the Java challenged. You have tons of people with Windows 3.1 still on the desktop. There is an enormous opportunity for us to Java-enable these people."

InfoWorld
Show threadNina KalininaOct 18
@charette this is nice info, thanks!
Show threadStéphane Charette 🇨🇦Oct 18
@nina_kali_nina Why say "that's not true"? I was working at IBM at the time. I was an OS/2 developer back then.
Show threadthe esoteric programmerOct 18
@nina_kali_nina wait just a second...x11, on windows, whaaaaat?
Show threadNina KalininaOct 18
@esoteric_programmer there is also X11 server for DOS. It only supports old versions of X11, so it's suitable for period-correct access to SunOS and such.
Show threadthe esoteric programmerOct 18
@nina_kali_nina I wonder if it works with freedos as well
Show threadNina KalininaOct 18
@esoteric_programmer I suspect it does, but it's X11R5
Show threadltningOct 18
@nina_kali_nina @esoteric_programmer Pointers? It's not DV/X, right? Even OS/2 has an X server - PMX - which I'm using daily^Wweekly :D
Show threadNina KalininaOct 19
@ltning @esoteric_programmer there was Desqview/X, yes, but there was also Xappeal - a commercial fork of XFree86 with no sources
Show threadit's Kanbaru again 🌟Oct 18
@nina_kali_nina this is a delightful thread so far
Show threadNina KalininaOct 18
@hikari ^_^ thanks!
Show threadEli the BeardedOct 18
@nina_kali_nina
Such dedication
Show threadHans Meier 1312Oct 18
@nina_kali_nina Next make it run a VM, running Solaris running Internet Explorer ^^
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_AoyQeUzbEU
THINGS THAT SHOULDN'T EXIST: Internet Explorer for UNIX

YouTube
Show threadNina KalininaOct 18
@lunte161 I have a real Solaris machine, so might try it...
Show threadvae Oct 18
@nina_kali_nina not sure I've seen such cursed screenshots before to be quite honest. Well done! ​​
Show threadRonflaixOct 18
@nina_kali_nina would 3D Movie Maker even work on that setup of yours? I'm intrigued by the heck of a monster you created there.
Show threadNina KalininaOct 18

@Ronflaix it very well might, released in 1995, so there are chances it wasn't using DirectX just yet!

Edit: yes, it's WinG, should totally work on Windows 3.1

Show threadRonflaixOct 18

@nina_kali_nina while it's now open source thanks to @foone and al. (https://github.com/microsoft/Microsoft-3D-Movie-Maker) I don't know if that version of the repo would be helpful to compile a Win16 version.

Though, in my laptop there's still the CD for the French version I kept forgetting I'd eventually dump for Foone. Would that even be helpful in any case for testing?

Edit: should be in the tray. I have to check later

GitHub - microsoft/Microsoft-3D-Movie-Maker: This is the source code for the original Microsoft 3D Movie Maker released in 1995. This is not supported software.

This is the source code for the original Microsoft 3D Movie Maker released in 1995. This is not supported software. - microsoft/Microsoft-3D-Movie-Maker

GitHub
Show threadOzzelot Oct 18
@nina_kali_nina
I presently associate Space Cadet Pinball with anything that has a CPU
Show threadNina KalininaOct 18
@ozzelot these days, yeah...
Show threadOzzelot Oct 18
@nina_kali_nina
I would believe someone made a purely 16-bit port because why not :D
Show threadArcadiagt5Oct 18
@nina_kali_nina Cool. Nice Saber-chan desktop BTW. :)
Show threadEloshaOct 18
@nina_kali_nina Nice! Should also try the 32bit Apps from NT 3.x and 4x 😊
Show threadNina KalininaOct 18
@elosha NT 3 NewShell was a flop, and NT 4 is two years newer than Chicago, so I don't have much hopes about it...
Show threadJen - mangledPixelOct 18
@nina_kali_nina Images you can hear.
Show threadPulkoMandyOct 18

@nina_kali_nina a game of Operation: Inner Space?

https://sdispace.com/index.html

That was still supporting Windows 3.1 in the year 2022

Software Dynamic, home of Inner Space, Magic and After Dark

Software Dynamics, the home of the best software design.

Show threadNina KalininaOct 18
@pulkomandy here we go! it works as promised, and has cute sound effects