Mastodawn

Glowing Cat of the Nuclear Wastelands

Okay. So. I guarantee you that most Windows users—especially ones on Fedi—know how fucked up Windows has become. Bombarding them with "Install #Linux, we have cookies!" propaganda isn't going to send them rushing to download an image and flash it to a usb drive to install.

They know Windows is a nightmare, they want the nightmare to stop. But there are a lot of reasons stopping them from installing Linux.

One of the biggest ones is that even as Linux has gotten easier and easier to install, it's still a really big step for a lot of people. Maybe they only have one computer, and can't risk slagging it if they mess up. Maybe they don't even know where to start backing up their data. Google and the other search engines are returning AI slop, so they can't trust those to give them accurate and useful answers.

So instead of trying to convince them they want to switch, we need to help them find the resources necessary to do so if they decide they're ready. We need to be the opposite of all those fucking RTFM bros that made it hard when we first switched. We need to make sure they can find a helpful community to give them the support to feel safe in switching.

Because yeah, Windows fucking sucks. They know that, we know that. But breaking their computer so it works even less is fucking terrifying, and Linux has a fucking PR problem because the RTFM bros are the loudest members of our community.

Edit: this really resonated while I was asleep, and I'm glad to know I'm not the only one frustrated here. A few people have replied asking for help, and I'll try to boost them later when I get back to the computer, but if you can, please help them out. Not everyone is gonna switch, but let's make it better for those who are ready and willing to make the jump.

cyberheart_purple

@deathkitten THIS.

Sune Auken Oct 15

Thank you.

Adding to this. Many of us tech-noobs would like nothing better than a switch, but the institution we work with does not support much less effectuate a switch.

There is some element of agency in this. I cannot switch on my own, but I can and will put pressure on my institution to enable and support switching.

John Dal Oct 15

@deathkitten You're fanatical AntiWIn seems to be blinding you a bit. The reasons I don't run Linux are:
1: It won't run the best image processing Apps (Adobe). Don't bother with pointing out the alleged open-source alternatives, they are miles short).

John Dal Oct 15

@deathkitten
2. I failed to find out how to change the
buffer sizes on the drivers for my vintage UA-25. The setup on Linux has "pops and clicks disease", works 100% out of the box on Windows, but if it hadn't there's an easy interface to change the parameters.
These are show-stoppers.
And, BTW, Win 11 is running perfectly well with no hiccups (as did W10).

John Dal Oct 15

@deathkitten
With 40 years experience as a tech systems programmer, I know about command lines and Unix and so on and frankly I'd rather be running Linux as I detest big corporations and capitalism in general, but until the Linux world can persuade the big application software suppliers to support it, it's just not going to work.

Audrey Winter has moved!Oct 15

@JohnDal @deathkitten Linux is never going to get the market penetration its advocates and evangelists dream of. It can't because it can't get started. Big software won't go all-in because so few people use it; so few people use it because big software won't go all-in (among many other hindrances the advocates want to pretend aren't hindrances). MS is going to make a mint off #EndOf10 and that's just how it is.

Glowing Cat of the Nuclear Wastelands Oct 15

@audreygwinter @JohnDal Both of you missed my point. I did not say everyone must switch to Linux, nor do I think this is even a remotely reasonable goal.

My point was I'm tired of all the people going "Windows sucks, install linux" like there was absolutely nothing else stopping people from switching.

I can't address things like program lock in. Sometimes you don't like the alternatives we have here, sometimes you need specific software for work. That's normal. What I can do is encourage my community, that has an unfortunately well earned reputation of being offputting unhelpful assholes, to be more helpful so that those who want to switch have a better experience than I and many others had when we switched originally.

The Linux community is full of assholes who yell RTFM instead of help people. Those same assholes are the ones yelling 'install linux, it's better' without any care about any of the other reasons why people can't or don't want to switch. I'm not one of them. I'm just advocating for the rest of us to be louder and helpful to those who want to try it.

John Dal Oct 16

@deathkitten @audreygwinter Apologies for the misunderstanding, I agree with what you are saying there entirely. Can I have a rant about Wikis now?

Ravensrod 🫖 🍰Oct 15

@deathkitten
https://distrosea.com/

Test Linux distros online - DistroSea

Instantly test run Linux distros online in the cloud for free, right from your web browser. No installation or live boot required.

DistroSea

Jennifer Moore 😷Oct 15

Thanks for this realistic comment!

Another obstacle is being reliant on software that isn't made for Linux.

I tried out one of the reputable Linux speech-to-text things (can't remember the name of it off the top of my head), and it wasn't terrible, but it lacked a lot of Dragon's affordances.

It looks like if I want to keep running Dragon, it's going to have to be on top of a virtual machine, Dragon on Win on Linux.

And I shan't know until I do it how well that will actually integrate, e.g. it might mean I can't use Dragon directly into Thunderbird any more.

I'm still thinking I'm gonna take the leap, but it does feel like a leap in the dark!

#Linux #DragonNaturallySpeaking

Jennifer Moore 😷Oct 15

(And that's with a backstory of having used Ubuntu for years on another machine where I _wasn't_ trying to run Dragon. It's not that Linux itself is unfamiliar to me. So even more of a leap for most people.)

@deathkitten When it comes to just trying out Linux, without abandoning your windows install, virtual machines help a lot. Before I committed to Linux, I tried it out in an environment that I could always reset or delete without having to worry, and that went a long way to warming me up to it.

On precisely this note I am trying to switch but I think I need some help after failing at maintenance. I am a bit ashamed to admit this but without some handholding help I think I'll never get to grips with it. Do any of you kind souls want to shepherd me through something probably quite dull and mundane for y'all but an absolute roadblock for me?

Weird Socks Oct 15

@anilmc @deathkitten
I boosted your request. Did you receive an answer yet?

@anilmc heya o/
I've been using Linux for years, though probably a different distribution from what you're using so I might not be familiar with the kinds of problems you're facing.
That said, I'm happy to take a look!

Indyzign 🏳️‍⚧️ 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿Oct 15

@deathkitten I’m pretty tech savvy, although here on Mastodon, I’d be very much at the lower end of the scale! I would have been wary of switching to Linux, but I have a 20yo daughter who by her own account, is an autistic nerd that has a world of information inside her regarding tech, so the switch (for me) was pain-free and easy

Elena. (she/ her)Oct 15

@deathkitten
💯! In addition you could also swap Windows with big social media and Linux with fedi and it‘s the same message.

Magnus, Robot Fighter Oct 15

@deathkitten That's it. That's the post.

CartyBoston Oct 15

@deathkitten Yes. Let's not forget we run linux (kind of by definition) on specific configs well suited for it.

People's Windows machine configs can be random, if the wifi driver does not load it's (usually) game over.

Glowing Cat of the Nuclear Wastelands Oct 15

@CartyBoston For sure. Which is why the live usb drives that also install are so wonderful. They let you test the distro before you install to ensure you'll have the most important things: whatever networking/internet you need, video drivers, and keyboard/touchpad (critical if you're using a laptop). In theory, you can recover from most everything else, but I also understand why new users might still get discouraged if there's a bunch of other things to fix.

CartyBoston Oct 15

@deathkitten that's a great point, I may be still reacting to bad experiences I had some time ago.

NaClKnight 🧂⚔️🥊Oct 15

@deathkitten
I agree with a lot of this, even though i personally have no plans to switch off Windows

I think the resources would be helpful in general, but in specific, there are too many programs i use daily or weekly that either have no Linux version or one that is so different I'd have to relearn it from scratch. In no particular order:

How do i control the LEDs on my PC? (SignalRGB controls everything from any mfg but is windows only)
Does my app to monitor component temps and utilization (HWInfo) have a windows equivalent?
Can i output that data to a custom GUI? (Rainmeter)
What about CAD (Solidworks) and 3D printing (Cura)?
What about PC gaming? (Epic, Steam, Gamepass)

The Linux evangelists are annoying but easier to ignore. I have a harder time ignoring how Big an undertaking it'd be to get back the functionality i expect. Windows 11 suuuuucks, to be sure, but at least 10 does what i want my PC to do

I. L. Villiam Oct 15

True. I switched to Linux on only one device, and that only after someone here tried if a certain software would run with WINE. And also my partner uses Linux for years and installed it for me, fixing all problems and making sure I could use the software without any data loss.

It was still a nightmare to me when it first didn't work and I couldn't access my data.

We rely so much on some devices, switching is difficult.

Androcat Oct 15

@deathkitten Yeah. EndOf10 is a chance to be helpful.
Like, excruciatingly helpful.

Griselda Gimpel Oct 15

@deathkitten What version of Linux is the easiest and most like Windows if I wanted to download it to a jump drive and start using it?

Griselda Gimpel Oct 15

@deathkitten I get overwhelmed when presented with too much information at a time/when I need to learn too much information too quickly/when I have too many options/when I need to do too much debugging.

Is there a Linux that's user friendly to someone who's never installed an operating system before?

Glowing Cat of the Nuclear Wastelands Oct 15

@griseldagimpel My honest answer? Whatever distro the person who's going to help you is using themselves.

I don't mean just asking here on Fedi, I mean someone who can ride or die support you. This could be a friend who'll take a call or respond to a text/chat message and walk you through fixing your problem. Or if you find a good active support forum with helpful people who don't just yell RTFM at you.

All that said, if you're going to take the plunge without a ride or die on hand, I've seen a lot of people recommend Linux Mint. It's based on Ubuntu, which is based on Debian, and therefore a lot of Linux advice for all of the three will usually cover most things you need to figure out.

I also saw another person recommend this site to check out various distros, but full disclaimer, I haven't looked at it myself yet.

https://distrosea.com/

Test Linux distros online - DistroSea

Instantly test run Linux distros online in the cloud for free, right from your web browser. No installation or live boot required.

DistroSea

Griselda Gimpel Oct 15

@deathkitten Thank you.

@griseldagimpel @deathkitten KDE Neon would be my recommendation

https://neon.kde.org/download

Get the User Edition iso, put it on a USB drive using

https://apps.kde.org/isoimagewriter/

and boot your machine from the USB —it's a live system so this will allow you to play around with it and see if your hardware is supported before going for a full install.

KDE neon

KDE neon is the latest and greatest of KDE community software.

@griseldagimpel @deathkitten

My suggestion is to start with something that's widespread used. My choice was Debian, and I recommend it for beginners.

Typically nobody using Windows or iOS ever installed an OS in the last 20 years or so.

They bought a computer with an installed one already. So this may be tricky to people who never used a floppy or a CDROM as an install medium.

The key point is that you need an "install medium" which is somehow external for your. PC. This could be a pendrive or a dvdrom if your PC has a player.

Then you have to download your OS of choice in a compacted format known as .iso (called 'image'). This image cannot simply be copied onto your install media, as it will not work.

The install media must be properly initialised in order to become "bootable", which means it will literally 'execute' when plugged in you PC at boot.

From that point onwards, an install wizard will usually be available for most distributions.

crAshBanzai Oct 15

@deathkitten
Also:

• No good alternative to Outlook for MS Exchange work email service, with need to access .pst files

• Design software not available in Linux

• Inevitable comments of "...but emulators!"

Glowing Cat of the Nuclear Wastelands Oct 15

@crAshBanzai Lock in for applications one needs for work is 100% one of the reasons that I know just yelling "Windows sucks, come to Linux" is not going to get anyone to switch. I can't do anything about that. People gotta use what they gotta use to work, since we live in a FSM-foresaken Late Stage Capitalistic Hellscape. Some people choose to dual boot, some people don't have the energy to fight it, and some are lucky enough to get a job that gives them hardware so they can have a separate personal machine.

I could argue that there are some good design software options available, but unfortunately as someone who worked in the print industry for a while, I know that Adobe is default is one of those beasts that I'm not going to win fighting against in a professional environment. I'm perfectly content with GIMP, Krita, Inkscape, and Scibus, but I know that there's no getting those into environments where budgeting for the Adobe License subscription cost is just assumed when determining how many employees you can afford to hire.

Emulators are mostly crap. I've never actually gotten Wine to work in any way that's useful to me, aside from whatever Steam has turned their game focused fork into. Some determined people manage to get them to work, but honestly I figure if you can't find a native program that does what you want, either decide to live without it, set up a VM, or dual boot.

crAshBanzai Oct 16

@deathkitten i have enjoyed setting up a VM with Mint on one of our NAS boxes. It's slow as fuck but handy for some stuff.

@deathkitten I was very young and naive when I first installed Linux. I had just had some blue screens with data loss on windows because back then somehow my system broke down whenever I tried to save the document I was working on.
Had someone yelled at me that wouldn't have helped.
Instead a friend said: "that sucks. I will come and help you switch" and as soon as the "have a lot of fun" screen opened I was in love.
I have had some reasons to have windows for a few years now, but I am going to switch back to Linux. And even though I am not a big nerd I am confident in doing that because back then the Linux fan in my life just helped me get started.

Kagan MacTane (he/him)Oct 15

@deathkitten Yes, very much this. I've run command-line Linux on my servers for over 25 years, but have never gotten around to making the leap for my desktop/laptop environment. I have a ton of muscle memory for all kinds of things on Windows, and a lot of workflows set up smoothly. I have a Mint USB boot stick ready for me to play with, but just the hurdle of having to reboot to try it is a major speedbump. 1/2

Kagan MacTane (he/him)Oct 15

@deathkitten As for actual migration? I am *not* looking forward to losing at least a week's productivity while I get everything tweaked and comfy. And yes, like you mentioned, since I only have this one laptop, I can't be productive on a second machine while I'm getting Linux set up to my liking. It has to be all-or-nothing. (At least I'm confident I can install without bricking it. Although it occurs to me I should triple-check on driver compatibility before crossing the Rubicon.) 2/2

Griselda Gimpel Oct 16

@deathkitten Another question: what the equivalents to MS Paint and Windows Photo Legacy that I'd use with Linux?

Glowing Cat of the Nuclear Wastelands Oct 16

@griseldagimpel Most people use either GIMP or Krita for drawing. I'm not familiar with Windows Photo Legacy, so I'm not sure what to recommend for that. What's its purpose?

Griselda Gimpel Oct 16

@deathkitten Windows Photo Legacy allows me to make videos with custom audio. I'm producing an audio drama, so I need something with basic video making functionality.

Glowing Cat of the Nuclear Wastelands Oct 16

@griseldagimpel I just did a quote boost to hopefully get the attention of someone who knows what the recommend, as that's not something I do. Hopefully we'll get you an answer!

Griselda Gimpel Oct 16

@deathkitten Thanks!

(Because I swear, Windows gets shittier with every iteration. The whole reason I'm using the legacy version of Windows Photos is that the new version removed features I needed but, you guessed it, added AI.)

Glowing Cat of the Nuclear Wastelands Oct 16

@griseldagimpel I wish I was surprised they did that, but I'm not. I know I have a bunch of Linux mutuals, so hopefully one will get back to us with a suggestion. 🤞 I've already been boosted once.

Griselda Gimpel Oct 16

@deathkitten Another question, this one kind of high-level.

If I switch operating system, will all my files still be accessible?

Glowing Cat of the Nuclear Wastelands Oct 16

@griseldagimpel you'll want to back them up externally, because the install will likely reformat your whole drive (I say likely because if there are partitions, you can sometimes keep some of the old partitions, but that's an advanced process).

If you're just testing things out from a live usb without installing, you should be able to see all your files. The only thing to worry about is if you have any files that are a proprietary type that only open in certain programs. A lot of their Linux equivalents can read a lot of them, but sometimes we're a version or two behind or something comes out a little weird because we're backwards engineering it.

Sy Taffel Oct 17

@griseldagimpel @deathkitten

There's a version of DaVinci Resolve for Linux, which is incredibly powerful software that does video editing, audio editing, compositing/vfx and colour grading

https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/davinciresolve

DaVinci Resolve | Blackmagic Design

Professional video editing, color correction, visual effects and audio post production all in a single application. Free and paid versions for Mac, Windows and Linux.

princess pancake

@griseldagimpel @deathkitten XP-era MS Paint maps 1:1 to https://apps.kde.org/kolourpaint/

KolourPaint

Paint Program

KDE Applications

@deathkitten I loved Linux for years, then switched back to w11 due to software I use only available on it. Wine or else only gave me poor results or no support at all. And no, there was no linux equivalents.

Glowing Cat of the Nuclear Wastelands Oct 16

@Obenji69 That's unfortunate, and I'm sorry you had to make that choice. I hope you can make Windows usable for you even as they continue to enshittify it.

@deathkitten 1/2 As a 40 year DOS and Windows power user...let me say that the RTFM people kept me from every learning more linux than I needed to keep a couple of simple websites up and running. And even that was painful.

A year ago I went with Mint at home, and yes, it hurt. But so much is so much BETTER and EASIER than Windows; it's worth the time it takes to find good assistance when needed. It's out there. It can be done. In short order you will become comfortable.

@deathkitten 2/2 And let me add this...it's not just the RTFM guys you're fighting, it's the command line purists. That's fine, let them do what they do. You don't have to do that. I have to say that 99% of what I do in a terminal is copied and pasted, provided by someone who really does want to make life easy for all of us who have recently migrated.

Ignore the grumps. Don't worry. Everything you do on Windows is done in remarkably the same way with analogous 'nix apps. It's going to be okay.

kontrollierterWahnwitz Oct 16

@deathkitten The problem I have with all these Linux influencing in the Fediverse is that it is all about having and solving problems. But people use their computers for productivity, education, fun, creativity. We should focus on the use cases and show how fun can computing can be.

Blobhaj_Hug_Plushie

I once again wanna spread this project: https://endof10.org/ as it might be relevant for those seeking help.

@deathkitten

Personally this is why I like endof10.org so much, because it gives you actual, real-life places to go to get support with installation and using the operating system, often for free, meaning that even if you don't have someone with the knowledge in your direct friendgroup or family or something you can STILL get help with doing this step and settling in to the new environment

Rexo the Trans Bus 🏳️‍🌈🏳️‍⚧️🚌Oct 16

@deathkitten I am incredibly thankful for this post. the actual point is valid but it's not why I'm thankful - it's because for once someone complaining about the behaviour of people trying to advocate for Linux usage actually gives a workable suggestion for what should be done instead of just aggressively scolding them for what they shouldn't do

Fluffy Kitty Cat Oct 16

@deathkitten I've been having similar thoughts.

@deathkitten for those of us that are stuck with windows right now. I suggest continuing to use win 10 by enrolling in the extended support for a year. It's not great but it's better than forcing win 11.
I love the idea of running Linux as my daily OS but I use Ableton for music creation which is not compatible 😒
All that being said I will be moving my wife and kids to Linux since they basically use websites all day. There's no reason for me to upgrade their equipment to run Windows 11

@deathkitten You hit spot on.
It's easy to start from scratch and learn new system. It's hard when you have preinstalled/have it working for years.
I intend to switch someday to linux (no clue which to pick as well) but unless I can't play games on windows 10/ my applications required for work won't be on win10. I will stick to my 4 year old system. I have few laptops with windows 7 that are over 10 years.

Simulflow 🇨🇦 🇰🇷 🇺🇦 🇵🇸Oct 16

@deathkitten Thank you. The hubs and I are not pleased about Windows 11 for personal use and I want to consider Linux more closely.