Serge from BabkaSep 29

Wikipedia's antisemitism has personally caused me more problems than any other single entity.

Someone will talk about the "evils of Zionism" and I will say "Let me clear up some misconceptions on what Zionism is, as a Zionist".

Then the antisemite will say "WIKIPEDIA SAYS IT'S THIS!!!" and then quote Wikipedia's antisemiticly biased article on Zionism.

Why is this antisemitism and not anti-Zionism?

The article is anti-Zionist, and contains several falsehoods, but it's not merely one article, it's a collection of articles on Jewish topics, on Zionism, on Israel, etc. It's demonstrated to be a coordinated effort, and it's relatively new- the same articles were not this way just a few years ago (before 10/7).

In the meantime, Wikimedia has taken the position that Jews do not get to define their own beliefs and are not trusted sources on these topics- as illustrated by policies saying that the oldest, and one of the largest anti-hate group in the US is not to be trusted.

#Wikipedia

Show threadGraeghosMIUS
@serge What do you call the Israeli politicians and peoples demand for the Biblical homelands?
Sep 29 at 5:04pmWeb
Show threadSerge from BabkaSep 29

@GraeghosMIUS

Before I answer you, because I've gotten pushback in the past and I don't know you, I want to say a few things.

Someone of a group being for something does not mean everyone of that group believes the same thing, especially if that group is a minority of a much larger group.

For example, I know that in the US there are Christian Nationalists who want the US to be a Christian nation with Christian laws, and I don't agree with this viewpoint, but I'm not "Anti-Christian" even though I'm anti-Christian Nationalism.

There are multiple political parties in Israel (just like in many countries, there are fringe parties), so we could talk about the individual parties such as Otzma Yehudit (the Jewish Power Party), or Kahane Chai (Khane Lives). Generally though it's easier and usually safe to simply call these groups Khanists, which is an extreme fringe of Religious Zionism, which I'll come back to.

1/3

Show threadSerge from BabkaSep 29

@GraeghosMIUS

Khanists are explicitly anti-Arab and believe in violence as well as Israeli expansion. So when I'm talking about those groups who advocate expansion, expulsion, violence and annexation, I talk about them as Khanists.

Khanists are part of a larger group called "Religious Zionism", but it's important to understand that Religious Zionism, while a fringe movement on its own, and right wing, is not all violent and explicitly expansionist.

Put more simply, not all religious Zionist Jews are "Religious Zionists", and even then, not all Religious Zionists are Khanists.

So you have

Jews -> Zionists -> Religious Zionists -> Khanists -> Several other groups

The distinction I make personally is Khanists, though I've seen people talk about Religious Zionism as where they draw the line. I'm not a member of Religious Zionism, so I can't speak to where that line is myself. I'm not part of that movement, and I'm not even Israeli.

2/3

Show threadSerge from BabkaSep 29

@GraeghosMIUS

So what's happened is that the movement that is Zionism, an ancient desire by Jews to find safety and return to our indigenous homeland, is being smeared by people who conflate Zionism with Khanistism.

It's extremely unfair and it's deeply damaging to Jews.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMOSXiJ2JKY

3/3

#Jews #Israel #Zionism #Khanism #ReligiousZionism

What IS Zionism? | Unpacked

YouTube
Show threadGraeghosMIUSSep 29
@serge I won't watch videos for news, especially from YouTube which will let anyone spout whatever nonsense they want. Unfortunately the very small minority is the majority of elected politicians as their expansionist agenda continues to show. If a majority was against the illegal settlements and voted against that, it wouldn't be happening. 1/2
Show threadGraeghosMIUSSep 29
@serge 2/2 I'm over 60 and have been having a similar discussion since the 70's. Most of my Jewish friends were vocally against expansionist Israel and have understood the methods used to keep the Palestinians down. Everyone asks about Arab states recognizing Israel but Israel has never recognized Palestine or the people who lived there for generations.
Israel has a right to be a nation, but zero right to use any mythological favors to justify what is happening in the modern day.
Show threadNadav🏳️‍🌈🇪🇺🇩🇪🇮🇱Sep 29
@GraeghosMIUS
Let me point out a few very problematic points on your comment above:
1. Age does not get you the right to be bigoted or antisemitic.
2. Nor not to educate yourself.
3. It doesn't matter how long you've heard the same thing within your echo chamber. Your reply reflects on you being intellectually lazy.
HTH.
@serge
Show threadSerge from BabkaSep 29

@nadav

If I'd paid attention to @[email protected] 's account, I'd have seen they boost some of the most foul antisemites on the Fediverse, people who are so antisemitic they've lost jobs and funding for their online behavior.

There's no point wasting your time with people who are so consumed with hatred that seek out marginalized people to taunt and attack.

We can feel sorry for them, but don't have to waste time on them.

Show threadGraeghosMIUSSep 30
@nadav So you have no response to my statement other than attacking me. SOP
Show threadNadav🏳️‍🌈🇪🇺🇩🇪🇮🇱Sep 30
@GraeghosMIUS
Exactly like you did in your comment. SOP.