I think we should treat people who get scammed and come out and talk about it like heroes. And this is important: no matter how "obvious" the scam might seem in retrospect or from the outside of the community it prey'd on.

The more I look at scams the more I think this is major factor in how they keep going and keep coming back.

@futurebird

People should not be ashamed of being scammed. Grifters' tricks are designed to bypass your critical thinking skills, and they can get you no matter how smart you are.

@suetanvil

Different tricks for different people.

Yes. YOU would never have fallen for that, but there are things you would fall for.

@futurebird @suetanvil And not getting scammed requires constant vigilance, which is exhausting. Anyone can have an off day where they’re careless for just a moment.

@jjLitke @futurebird @suetanvil I've gotten scammed by being too tired and just kind of mindlessly doing what was asked of me, in ways that I couldn't even explain in the light of day.

I wonder what the mental health toll is for a region of people who have to constantly be knives out for scams, how that exhausting vigilance erodes your sense of safety and community as a population.

I think the sociologists and anthropologists could tell us! Iirc there’s a big difference between high trust and low trust societies.

More vaguely… middle trust isn’t stable, high and low trust are attractors? The compromise is high trust only in in groups? (And that can get broken.) Trade and technology depends on trust a *lot*?

@raven667 @jjLitke @futurebird @suetanvil

@clew @raven667 @jjLitke @futurebird @suetanvil Trust in groups can also devolve really quickly into cult, behavior. All it takes are a few bad apples who infiltrate a group & start to twist it. My sister who was a genuinely kind Christian woman was subjected to the most astonishing amount of that kind of twisting that none of us knew about until after she passed. There was a daily onslaught on her computer from “Christian” sources that was so hatefilled & frightening it took my breath away.

*Oof*.

I wonder if that's the end state of in-group trust, or the vulnerability that breaks it, or what.

There's also a lot of stuff on what maintains trust and IIRC big candidate is swift reliable universal punishment of trust-breaking. You can let people make amends and get back in (maybe you have to? i forget) but you gotta actually punish.

@Pineywoozle @raven667 @jjLitke @futurebird @suetanvil

@clew @raven667 @jjLitke @futurebird @suetanvil Both. MAGA accepted so many of the twisters from so many different approaches, racism being the biggest, that it’s impossible for evangelicals at this point to separate. Maybe in a few years it will splinter and the truly twisted part. will as you say, be punished by ostracism and broken off but right now it’s so integrated and was so deliberately integrated that I don’t see it ending for a long time, but I do see it ending.
@futurebird @suetanvil I found that recently. I get tons of "📢 ZOMG‼️YOUR SUBSCRIPTION EXPIRED SO WE WILL DELETE ALL UR PHOTOS 📵🚨🔔" spam which is painfully obvious, but then just recently there was a "Our new online system for NHS repeat prescriptions" one that may well have slipped by if it were at all relevant to me.
@DamonWakes @futurebird @suetanvil yeah I'd just started getting prescriptions delivered so nearly got got by the NHS one, bastards!
@DamonWakes the ones I get are pretty convincing package delivery notifications. There was a time I was always ordering stuff online and these might have caught me but now I'm too cheap lol so their falsity is quite apparent. :p
@hwll I get those too. The ones that present it as some kind of prize are obvious, but the generic DHL-looking ones could easily trip me up if I were waiting for a package.
@DamonWakes
I think we're talking about the exact same emails, yup