Georgiana Brummell

I know there are many #DOS gamers here and those who simply love #retroComputing and #technology . But are there any serious DOS #programmers here as well? If so, in which language/s do you write? (I want to learn #QuickBasic , but I am at the very beginning, and it's not advanced enough for what I need.) Does anyone here work on the development of #FreeDOS ? Assuming any of the above is true, do any of you know about #accessibility and #ScreenReaders ? I am totally #blind and have loved DOS since I was a teenager. I am now forty-one. I am aware of the many updates to the system over the years, but have been unable to take advantage of them due to the fact that no new or updated #AdaptiveTechnology is being developed for it. Everyone seems to love Linux. I don't. Neither do I like Mac OS. I love Windows XP and 7, but 11 drives me mad. I think we deserve another alternative to all of these, and I also think that DOS can be it if a few things are added to it, including a talking installer, an updated screen reader and good software speech synthesis. For those of you who think DOS only equals dialup modems and floppies, you may wish to read this, or at least skim through it.

http://www.chebucto.ns.ca/~ak621/DOS/DOS-Fal.html

DOS Fallacies -- A Doctor DOS Discussion

Gives DOS Operating System Fallacies and Discusses Why they are Untrue

Sep 14 at 7:53pmWeb
Show threadBernd BöckmannSep 14

@dandylover1 I am both into the development of the #FreeDOS and #SvarDOS distributions. Development is mainly in C and X86 assembly

We have a "talking" version of our SvarDOS distribution for blind persons. It uses the PROVOX screen reader and requires a Braille 'n Speak synthesizer connected to the COM1 port.

I have never used this by myself, and I am not familiar with developing specifically for Braille 'n Speak. So I will ask the people involved about its state and report back. In the meantime, you may give it a try if you are interested.

You may get it at http://svardos.org/

SvarDOS

Show threadGeorgiana BrummellSep 14
@boeckmann *Most of this will probably make no sense to you, so I will try to explain it briefly. But this is good to keep in mind when you speak with the other developers.* That is very interesting! I have never heard of this version of DOS and will need to research it. Provox, to my knowledge, is the only fully open source screen reader available, though I have never used it myself. I am trying to locate Larry Skutchan, the creator of another screen reader, called ASAP, to see if he will allow that to be open source as well, since it's very flexible and development continued well into the 1990's. Regardless, the fact that this is even included at all is a great first step! Please ask if anyone is actively developing Provox or if it is just set up so that it comes with the system itself. One of the main problems with older screen readers is that they require a hardware synthesizer connected to a serial port, or a simulated one if in a virtual machine and using a Windows screen reader such as NVDA. There were tones for DOS, such as JAWS and Flipper, that used the speech in SoundBlaster, but that required very specific hardware, namely the soundcard. My dream is to be able to integrate something such as ESpeak into DOS, so that a screen reader can work with software as is done in Windows.
Show threadBernd BöckmannSep 14

@dandylover1 ESpeak sadly is neither in the FreeDOS software repository nor in the SvarDOS repository.

However, I downloaded its source code. There are traces of DOS support contained in the source. I am wondering if we could get this at least to compile. This does not mean it will run though.

I forwarded your reply to our discussion board at the SvarDOS website but will also report back here on mastodon. Link: http://svardos.org/?p=forum&thread=1757884070#1757885136

State of the Braille 'n Speak

Show threadGeorgiana BrummellSep 14
@boeckmann Thank you so much! i sincerely appreciate all of this. I believe there used to be support for DOS in ESpeak. But I'm not sure if that's still true of the latest version ESpeak NG> If you downloaded something modern, that is a very good sign. At least, it's a starting point.
Show threadBernd BöckmannSep 15

@dandylover1 I found out that ESpeak and ESpeak NG are different versions of the program. The latter does not seem to have any DOS support.

The original ESpeak has very limited functionallity under DOS. It can only produce wave files and phonemes for mbrola from its text input, but has no means to output by itself

Not sure if that is actually any useful to you. Mateusz Viste replied to me the following on our discussion board:

"Compiling espeak is not enough. Georgiana would like a screen reader that talks on its own, ie without TTS hardware. To achieve this, a TSR screen reader like Provox. ASAP, JAWS, etc would have to output speech instructions to espeak, and the latter would have to generate samples in realtime and feed them to a Sound Blaster. All this while the actual application is being operated by the user. Not a trivial feat."

So, currently, this sadly seems to be a dead end.

Show threadEniko FoxSep 15
@dandylover1 FreeDOS is on here as @freedosproject
Show threadGeorgiana BrummellSep 15
@eniko Thank you! I will be sure to follow them!
Show threadThe FreeDOS ProjectSep 15

@dandylover1 @eniko
Hi there! You asked about programming languages. I always liked C for programming on DOS. My first programming language was BASIC and then FORTRAN 77 but C works very well.

We include compilers for all of those, and more. They are on the Bonus CD.

Show threadGeorgiana BrummellSep 15
@freedosproject @eniko Excellent. I want to start learning QuickBasic myself. I know I can make a lot with that. But eventually, I probably will need to switch to C if I wanted to make more complicated software.
Show threadMcMartinSep 16

@dandylover1 The Watcom compiler chain is a very good place to go for C compilation to DOS, and it can handle both 16- and 32-bit modes.

If you have some other OS you use that has better accessibility support, Watcom will almost certainly run on it as well, so your preferred text editors or reference browsers should all be available to you.

If you do ultimately dip into assembly language, I've always preferred Nasm.

Beyond that, SuperIlu's list of tools above is a strict superset of mine.

Show threadGeorgiana BrummellSep 15
@freedosproject If I wish to discuss FreeDOS and screen readers, adding features, etc. where should I post my questions? I see that there are mailing lists as well as a forum, but I want to post to the correct place and not create clutter or go off-topic.
Show threadThe FreeDOS ProjectSep 15
@dandylover1 The freedos-user is the best place, and you are welcome to ask questions there. I know there are one or two others on that list who also use DOS with screen readers.
Show threadMissConstrueSep 15
@dandylover1 it’s been a long time since I’ve played with dos, so I’m not much help, but boosting for reach. Some of my friends are into very niche code bases.
Show threadDen of EarthSep 15

@dandylover1
I started my career coding DOS programs and we used Microsoft C. As I recall there was a rudimentary dev environment that allowed you to step through your source code as it was executing which was handy.

Not well known at the time but in DOS you could simultaneously have both a VGA and a monochrome (Hercules) screen and the compiler would support the program output on one and the source code on the other.

Solid alternative: Borland Turbo C of the same era.

Show threadGeorgiana BrummellSep 15
@DenOfEarth That is quite interesting. In my case, I'm totally blind, so it wouldn't help me, but I absolutely love trivia, and you never know when a piece of knowledge comes in handy.
Show threadJulius KaiserSep 15

@dandylover1 There's @dec_hl around here - crafter of DOStodon - the Mastodon client for MS-DOS.

https://github.com/SuperIlu/DOStodon

GitHub - SuperIlu/DOStodon: MS-DOS Mastodon client

MS-DOS Mastodon client. Contribute to SuperIlu/DOStodon development by creating an account on GitHub.

GitHub
Show threadSuperIluSep 15

@jlsksr @dandylover1 As Julius pointed out, I do some DOS programming in my free time.
Mostly in plain C, but I have done FreeBASiC for fun, too. You might want to check it out…

My main project is DOjS, a JavaScript runtime for DOS, DOStodon is implemented using that.

https://github.com/SuperIlu

SuperIlu - Overview

DOS? Hell yeah! I'm doing mostly C and embedded stuff. But at night I dream I'm a creative coder, too... - SuperIlu

GitHub
Show threadSuperIluSep 15

@jlsksr @dandylover1 PS: I recently collected a list of development resources for MS DOS, maybe you find some interesting information there:

https://github.com/SuperIlu/DOSDevelResources

Show threadGeorgiana BrummellSep 15
@dec_hl @jlsksr Thank you. I will definitely research these!
Show threadGeorgiana BrummellSep 15
@dec_hl @jlsksr Interesting. I wonder if this can work with screen readers. With Java Script, I'm not too sure. I didn't even know that works in DOS, so I just learned something new!
Show threadSuperIluSep 15
@dandylover1 @jlsksr well, usually there is no JavaScript on DOS. I just used it as the language of choice for my project. It is not related to the functionality it provides in web browsers on modern systems.
In DOjS there is a text mode editor for programming (which might be accessible, but I’m not sure), but if you run the program it will switch to graphics mode.
Show threadSuperIluSep 15
@dandylover1 @jlsksr
I have another project called jSH that has no embedded editor, but you can use it to create text mode programs in JavaScript.
This one is something like the “ugly” child of my projects as it doesn’t get as much love as it should 😆
Show threadLea RosemaSep 16
@dandylover1 I also do DOS development in my spare time. C, Pascal and x86 asm mostly :)