Hello Fedi, @weirdtreething @9lore and I are looking for project name suggestions.

We've been discussing it on-and-off for the past year, but I think it's finally time to split #chrultrabook into two projects.

Just to be clear: There's no drama, not even close. It's just that project grew exponentially, and 95% of support requests come from Windows users, which we couldn't care less about.

Main reasons behind this decision are:
1. Inability to get funding.
Chrultrabook being Windows-centric meant people assumed that paid Windows drivers funded the project.
That is absolutely not the case, as the only person working on Windows support is CoolStar and money goes directly to her.

2. Increasing complexity.
Machines are getting more expensive, and a lot of stuff is changing under the hood. For instance:
- IPU cameras are now standard on higher-end models
- Tablet mode and other various sensors were handled by EC (with exception of Dell machines that used ISH). It seems like noving forward, ISH (Integrated Sensor Hub) will become standard.
- Intel also introduced THC (Touch Host Controller) and various other "co-processors" as they're cosplaying as ARM.
- Disappearing support from Google and CPU vendors (Intel, AMD). Previously, Google's engineers were unofficially helping us behind the scenes. As nearly entire ChromeOS team was fired, we no longer have connections at Google to help us with stuff like publishing firmwares in upstream. I raised this issue this year, and been told that no firmware from ChromeOS will be published in linux-firmware moving forward (at least when it comes to Intel-specific platforms).
Google cancelled AMD Chromebooks (resulting in layoffs at AMD and re-structuring), while Intel is just generally struggling. Many people who helped us with stuff like audio on Intel's side were fired as well.
- Lack of documentation of any kind. Schematics are under NDAs, ARM vendors like Qualcomm or MediaTek refused to share any kind of documentation (even if we offered to sign an NDA), which means that we need to reverse-engineer ARM64 platforms (hence why progress is slow on that end).

3. Documentation.
Because of Windows users, we had to over-simplify documentation to the point where it's not really useful... to anyone. Not to advanced users, and certainly not to developers who'd be interested in helping.
Splitting the project means new documentation, where we hope to document every machine (or at least platform) with as much detail as possible (see postmarketOS wiki pages or my github profile as examples of that).
We're also hoping to create wiki-like website to host pictures of mainboards listing chips and various measurements, which should help people trying to fix their systems and reduce amount of e-waste.
Small taste of how it could look like: https://cros.sakamoto.pl/w/Main_Page

4. Mental health.
Community became unmoderable. Choosing Discord as communication platform was a mistake, people straight up refuse to use forums or github issues.
On top of that, 95% support requests come from Windows users who ignore any rules whatsoever and ask repeated quesitons that are answered in FAQ on CoolStar's website.
Because of that, we lost motivation to work on project (despite loving tinkering with those machines) and burned ourselves out.
We want to leave that baggage behind and focus on what we want to do, without dealing with support requests from Windows users.

5. Re-focusing.
We want to work on ARM64 firmware. Current state of coreboot on ARM is frankly abominable as a whole, full of hacks and regressions.
We want to improve it, despite platform-specific quirks.
Ideally you should be able to just flash the firmware, plug USB with Linux on it, boot installer via EFI and have standard booting method.

So, that's why we decided to move forward with this decision. We really want to get back on track, but it won't be under "chrultrabook" umbrella anymore.
chromebook hackers wiki

@elly @9lore @weirdtreething i’m still suggesting FirmwareHackers. simple, to the point, you can get good domains for it

alternatively, you can find a japanese word you vibe with. Team Sakura Firmware? Project Kowareru (jp. broken/break)?

@domi @9lore @weirdtreething To be honest, if we want reference from non-English (or Polish/German) language, I think we should ask someone who's either native or speaks that language well to avoid fuckups.

My Japanese is still at beginner level (can understand natural speech/have simple conversation, read if I have table of characters in front of me) but it's nowhere near being good enough to draw deep references to something

@elly @9lore @weirdtreething if you look at english project names written by japanese people, they’re all cringe in this very specific way. i think you could get away with doing that ;p but yeah, if you know any natives, you can collaborate with them on picking a good name. that’d be cool!!

on that note: you mentioning polish/german gives me a lot of ideas for german project names. very versatile (take kaputt and add a second word, you have a name), sounds universally quite cool, only 9lore will be cringing at it… what’s not to like! /hj

@domi @9lore @weirdtreething I would dare to bother @rio with that 

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Project KowareruReading this sent me with a cringe down my spine oh my goodness graciousness please don't use verbs as project names like that bruh 😭 (Not that Japanese project names can speak for others!)

Back to the topic, it seems that you are doing something really interesting! Thanks for the ping honestly! Let me try figuring out what exactly the (new?) project will be about before I throw out any names at all.

@rio @domi @weirdtreething @9lore Glad you found it interesting  
We're still doing same old (https://media.ccc.de/v/37c3-11929-turning_chromebooks_into_regular_laptops), but want to focus on Linux and firmware rather than trying to keep Windows community in check
Turning Chromebooks into regular laptops

media.ccc.de
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ルビーブック(Rubībook)
Rubies are made from Chromes, as chromium is what makes corundums to rubies.

Because the project is about repurposing Chromebooks into something more usable, perhaps making a Ruby out of a Chrome, would be one poetic interpretation of old, wasted Chromes into something more beautiful I thought.

There is no native Japanese word for "ruby", just loanwords: the Chinese
紅玉(kougyoku), or English ルビー(rubī). And, while 紅玉(こうぎょく) looks and sounds really cool and understandable in Han-influenced East Asian languages (Chinese/Japanese/Korean/Vietnamese), it would be quite a hassle to get the name out to other, more western audiences I felt.

I know you wanted non-English/Polish/German, preferably Japanese name for the project, and this one looks very Katakana/English loanwordy, but hear me out: this is really really easy to spell out and write for a lot of people, a lot more than chrultrabook in my opinion.
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Other candidates:

Corundum
Because if you combine corundum with a Chrome-book, you got yourself a gem-book!(ruby)

Carbuncle
Synonymous with "Ruby". I really like this one because it is also the name of the Mythical creature in South American folklore with the same name and if you pick this name, the mascot character for this project will be 100% a Carbuncle.

Verneuil
Because you are artificially creating a gem (ruby) out of a Chrome(book).

Cabochon
Because you are preparing gemstones by shaping them and polishing them the good old way instead of cutting into them.
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Actually, I have just realized that, although this falls into neologism territory, you can read the Chinese word (kango) in Japanese kun'yomi reading.
So, the word for "Ruby"
紅玉(こうぎょく)(kougyoku), for example, would be 紅玉(べにたま)(Benitama or Benidama) if read in Japanese. "Scarlet gem" is the literal meaning.
Just a thought.
@rio @elly @weirdtreething @9lore the cringe was fully intended btw :3
@elly @9lore @weirdtreething project corebook, corebookers  
indieboot/indiebook?
@weirdtreething @Remiberry When @9lore @migy and I met in Bochum, best idea we came up with was "corebook" but it's way too similar to "coreboot" (one letter difference) so it's out.
You can tell we're all engineers since we suck with naming things /hj
@elly @9lore @Remiberry @weirdtreething In this regard I want to point out this thread. It completely speaks to me. https://retro.social/@ifixcoinops/114982598034239717
Dan Fixes Coin-Ops (@[email protected])

Free software people I am begging you to stop naming your software

Retro Social

@migy @elly @9lore @Remiberry @weirdtreething i’ve been thinking about this since yesterday and my largest issue with this thread is that “normal” people naming their services are even worse

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_streaming_media_services is a wall of shame

List of streaming media services - Wikipedia

@malte @migy @9lore @Remiberry @weirdtreething This doesn't make sense. "Kore" is used in Japanese to refer to the object near the speaker (like if you're talking about the item you're holding in your hand, or standing next to it)

@elly @migy @9lore @Remiberry @weirdtreething it was a joke regarding kde's naming scheme that got an honorable mention in ifixcoinops' thread 😅

but, yeah, maybe i should have put that context as cw or similar. sorry for the confusion!

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freebook?
Has the Chromebook source, emphasizes the free as in cost and free as in freedom part of being able to run Linux (or windows or whatever)
@theking @weirdtreething @9lore hot take: "free" and "libre" are not an option for modern project. Those terms have been tainted by Free Software Foundation (which does nothing) and tinfoil hat conspiracists
@[email protected] @[email protected] @[email protected] ok that's fair, I was thinking about that too and wasn't sure if I should say it

What about open? So like, openbook?
Plays off the "book" part?
@theking @elly @9lore not all of them are books. we do not exclude chromeboxes and bases (and the one chromebit)
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So the name should relate to chrome then technically?
I can't think of anything for that that doesn't suck at lot
@theking @elly @9lore doesn't have to be. and yes, we suck at names too.
@elly @9lore @weirdtreething chronosware? chronos something, i like the idea of referencing these laptops living past "their time"
@robot @9lore @weirdtreething This could also potentially be a copyright infringement.
You see quite a few references like that in ChromeOS... heck, default non-root user is called "chronos"

@elly @9lore @weirdtreething i *was* referencing the default user, didnt know it could be an issue.

i thought though that google may have picked the kronos (chronos) username as an incredibles (2004) reference.

@robot @9lore @weirdtreething I wouldn't be surprised given most boards are named after video games or shows. Mendocino for instance was named after Skyrim (i.e Skyrim/Markarth)
@elly @9lore @weirdtreething i mean my first chromebooks was a starfox reference ww

@elly @9lore @weirdtreething I'm currently sifting through MrChromebox project myself (and your project also interests me). I'm planning to have a working tree of Libreboot by December, that has all the Chromebooks in it - and I was planning to reach out to you anyway.

Perhaps once this is off the ground, Libreboot and Chultrabook could work together?

I spoke to Matt from MrChromebox last night and he's given me lots of useful information - and @weirdtreething spoke to me also.

How about it?

@elly @9lore @weirdtreething what's chrultrabook? and yeah, more predictable uefi on arm would be nice indeed, especially if we get more support for acpi, because I believe device tree files are a big part of the problem
@esoteric_programmer @9lore @weirdtreething ACPI is a mess, trying to add support for it would be a nightmare that I would dread implementing Linux even if someone would pay me for it.

DeviceTree has it's faults, but syntax-wise I will take it over ACPI any day of the week (and that comes from someone who has most experience with x86)
@elly @9lore @weirdtreething the problem with device trees isn't sintax, it's that the kernel or whatever has to have support for that board/device, and exactly that device, otherwise it wouldn't work doesn't matter how similar the boards are. Is that right? if so, then arm will be forever more closed than x86
@esoteric_programmer @elly @9lore There is no reason why we can't put the devicetree into the firmware. Then any generic kernel with the correct drivers enabled will work.
@weirdtreething @9lore @elly but you have to do that for each board out there, meaning that if you don't know of it specifically, there's no support at all, right?
@esoteric_programmer @9lore @elly Yes, but we are targetting platforms which have no new devices at this point, so we do know all of them.
@esoteric_programmer @9lore @elly This problem is also not unique to devicetee
@weirdtreething @9lore @esoteric_programmer In case of laptops (or embedded devices), ACPI is very board-specific. It doesn't matter whether you use ACPI or DT.

It's a bit obfuscated if you're using coreboot for instance, as ACPI is generated based on options you configure (like rootports or usb ports), but it's fundamentally the same.

With ACPI you get SoC-specific tables. On top of that you add SuperIO/EC tables. On top of that, you add board-specific tables (USB, PCIe etc).

With DT you get SoC-specific DT. You import that into your board's dts, you refer to root nodes (like USB controller, I2C, SPI) and add devices that are on those buses as well as their options.

DeviceTree is simpler, much easier to understand, and more transparent. The only problem is that despite Linux's policy of keeping DT bindings backwards-compatible, things do break. If people would decide on using compatibles and keep compatibility while making changes to drivers, there would be zero reasons why DT couldn't be passed from the firmware (like ACPI tables are).
@[email protected] @[email protected] @[email protected] I mean I guess you could pick an element off the periodic table for name ideas, lotta chromium/chromeOS devs and people around that space do/did that (gallium, thorium, pissandshittium)

Chromium (the element) comes in a few forms - hexavalent chromium being pretty dangerous to come in contact with (as in lung cancer bad), and trivalent, which is generally safe from what I know

Maybe "hexavalent" could be cool. Sounds cool in my head. Could give the wrong idea to anyone with even basic material science tho
@[email protected] @[email protected] @[email protected] wait what the fuck this post is like a month old where did I pull this from ​