Mastodawn

Alexia

Aug 25, 2025

Software should not require permission to be written.

Software should not require permission to be distributed.

Software should not have a central entity controlling it.

The future is decentralized, fuck your centralized signature verification checks.

@alexia @bigzaphod What’s cool about anarchy is that it always works because everyone is altruistic. See also libertarianism.

Sean Heber Aug 26, 2025

@RyanHyde @alexia it's not anarchy to want to be free to write and run software without permission. People don't need permission to write a novel or build a contraption in their garage.

@bigzaphod @alexia False equivalency. Your garage contraption doesn’t have the same potential for harm as software. Your novel can never log my keystrokes.

zoe Aug 26, 2025

@RyanHyde @bigzaphod @alexia cool story, I still don't want google deciding what software I fucking run on my devices and who's allowed to make it

@zoee @bigzaphod @alexia That’s fine for you to want that. I don’t want that. Both things can be true.

Look, I’m not saying that <Big Tech Company> should have all the power in the world, or at they should be the sole arbiters. But I also don’t think <Whatever Developer> should have free rein. These forces need to be in proper tension for the industry and society to function well.

If you want to make the argument that the system is not currently balanced, I’d agree with you. But I’ll never agree to arguments for an unregulated market.

zoe Aug 26, 2025

@RyanHyde @bigzaphod @alexia Yeah okay but that's exactly what this is doing? Google will have the choice to approve or not of a developer. That's absolute and they will abuse this, as companies always do.

What even is the "free rein" for developers you are talking about? That they can make and publish stuff without being forced to go through 50 hoops including revealing their identity to get the approval of your favorite megacorp? Maybe I, a user, don't want a corporation to have more power over my own hardware than me?

We're not even talking about an "industry", or a "market"? This is nonsensical

Glyph

@zoee @RyanHyde @bigzaphod @alexia this is the free reign in question, and probably why these stories are breaking at the same time: https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/malicious-android-apps-with-19m-installs-removed-from-google-play/

Malicious Android apps with 19M installs removed from Google Play

Seventy-seven malicious Android apps containing different types of malware were found on Google Play after being downloaded more than 19 million times.

BleepingComputer

Glyph Aug 26, 2025

@zoee @RyanHyde @bigzaphod @alexia My feelings about this are really complicated so please do not take this as a blanket defense of google (or for that matter, apple). If you like, you can assume that they are merely using this threat as a pretext for a power grab, rather than remediating it. But it is important to understand that the threat itself is real.

@glyph @zoee @RyanHyde @bigzaphod @alexia How is the threat real? I have a hard time imagining a user accidentally sideloading an app or even getting tricked into it. You have turn on sideloading in the settings, somewhere deep in the permissions setting. Then you have to find the apk file in the file manager. Most file managers that are installed by default on Android hide the internal directory and dont surface apks by default. So you most probably need to install an external file manager.

@glyph @zoee @RyanHyde @bigzaphod @alexia And then you have to turn off play protect as that blocks any malicious apps from being sideloaded. That is another setting in the security settings. Finally even when play protect is off, you still get prompted to turn on play protect each time you try to sideload an apk. So thats additional dialog (and warning) to dismiss. How is that in anyway not enough security?

Sandelinos Aug 26, 2025

@pixelsfanryo @glyph @zoee @RyanHyde @bigzaphod @alexia It is not that complicated. You download an .apk, then you either click on the download notification, or find it in your Downloads folder and click on it. You get a popup saying "<your browser app>: For security reasons, your phone isn't allowed to install apps from this source...". There is a button on the popup that sends you straight to the correct settings page, you flip the switch and the app installs.

@Sandelinos @glyph @zoee @RyanHyde @bigzaphod @alexia Oh yeah I forgot you could install it from the download notification, but even then you need to flip the unknown apps switch. In the settings page linked you have to scroll to your browser (at least on my device) and then flip the switch. And even then Play Protect is on so Google scans the app before its allowed to be installed.

Sandelinos Aug 26, 2025

@pixelsfanryo @glyph @zoee @RyanHyde @bigzaphod @alexia Yes I agree with your point, just correcting the details.

@glyph @zoee @RyanHyde @bigzaphod @alexia I didnt even notice you linked a article that says malicious apps on *Google Play store*. Apps there are already verified! So no its not the free reign in question, in fact it shows that this verification scheme is not the solution.

Glyph Aug 26, 2025

@pixelsfanryo @zoee @RyanHyde @bigzaphod @alexia put yourself into the mindset of a google exec looking at this problem with the play store. You realize you are going to have to institute much more onerous, slower app reviews, like apple has, to stop this from happening. You know that this will piss off devs, so they will immediately turn to sideloading to get around the new requirements you are pushing on them. So, first, you start tightening the screws to make sure users don’t get used to this

Glyph Aug 26, 2025

@pixelsfanryo @zoee @RyanHyde @bigzaphod @alexia i am not saying they are correct or that they are justified in doing this. What i am saying is that if there is *any* hope to take this power away from corporations, we need to set up a parallel authority with a better mandate that serves the interests of public safety and not just corporate profits. “There’s no reason for this, I sideload what I want!” is not a position that can do that.

@glyph @pixelsfanryo @zoee @alexia I’m just gonna pluck Sean Heber out of this thread because I know he’s not interested in more notifications on this debate. Kindly respond from here if you would.