@Strandjunker

The window closed when 11 million people who voted for Joe Biden in 2020 couldn’t be bothered to vote in 2024. Now everyone is up in arms because nobody bothered to read the writing on the wall that’s been there since 2016.

@HamonWry @Strandjunker

@benroyce is probably the best person to comment on this, but I'm not sure it's just that people "couldn't be bothered”. There was an epidemic of #ToxicIdealism spread perhaps primarily by the “G-n-c-d- Joe” brigade leading a non-trivial number to not vote as some sort of masochistic protest.

The left wing must, finally, learn the lesson:
Fight in the primaries, unite in the election

@mmalc @HamonWry @Strandjunker

It's rather weird still encountering people, as I have recently, who think "teaching Democrats a lesson" is more important than {gestures broadly}

It's also extremely entitled

That the bad effects of the Trump administration won't affect them

(Or, rather than entitlement, extremely fucking stupid to think it won't effect them.)

@benroyce @mmalc @HamonWry @Strandjunker I think it's much deeper than just idealism, having 2 choices and having to choose something you disagree with because the other option is... well, unacceptable is a rotten system.

We've seen how a two party system keeps shifting right. Eventually your options will be just far right or farther right.

@Sh41 @mmalc @HamonWry @Strandjunker

yes but you have cause and effect backwards

it's not "this shifts right, so i won't participate"

it's "i'm not participating" and then as a consequence, things shift right

it's a feedback loop that accelerates

the only solution is more participation

you're never going to get perfect, it will always suck in some ways

but if you hold your nose and participate you can iterate on that and proceed left

in fact, that's the only way it will ever happen

@Sh41 @mmalc @HamonWry @Strandjunker

100% no

clarification: i want 3rd parties

but to have them, we need ranked choice voting

currently in the usa we have an FPTP voting system

what that means is if we were to add a new 3rd left party, we divide the left, and we guarantee MAGA wins

we need ranked choice first. so we need to get candidates that support that

that has to come first. without that, we are guaranteeing failure

the left has to take over the democratic party

it is the only way

@Sh41 @mmalc @HamonWry @Strandjunker

Right

so a general comment for Europeans:

what you need to do is not comment on the American voting system if you don't understand it

many of you speak of a solution: 3rd party

but we're not parliamentary

we're FPTP

which means 3rd party divides the left and hands MAGA more wins

You don't want that

But that's what you get

Please Europeans:

understand our voting system is completely fucked up

we need to change our system before getting 3rd parties

@benroyce @Sh41 @mmalc @HamonWry @Strandjunker

"we need to change our system before getting 3rd parties"

Speaking as a dual US/UK ctizen, changing the system is almost impossible if the Democrats refuse to embrace progressive ideas. It's from that quarter that the sort of system change you hope for will come. The Democrats are comfortable with FPTP because at least sometimes they're in office. They're essentially conservative and will always try to preserve the system. See also the UK.

@riggbeck @Sh41 @mmalc @HamonWry @Strandjunker

"changing the system is almost impossible if the Democrats refuse to embrace progressive ideas"

false

and an impotent self-defeating mentality

1. you show up in the primaries and you *replace* spineless centrists. you don't think of centrists as some omnipotent force. they're weak. boot them

2. demanding centrists magically turn into leftists before you vote is a joke. all that happens is you don't vote and you don't matter. you're ceding power

@benroyce @Sh41 @mmalc @HamonWry @Strandjunker

1) When Democratic candidates are at all progressive, they are either viewed with suspicion by the leadership or actively connived against.

2) I didn't say that. It's important to vote Democratic even if the candidate isn't all you want them to be.

But, they'll never ditch FPTP unless there are sufficient progressive Democrats to make it possible. The party has to change. That's a stone cold fact.

I'm just describing the political reality.

@riggbeck @Sh41 @mmalc @HamonWry @Strandjunker

" The party has to change"

yes

and you only achieve that by showing the fuck up. especially in the primaries to jettison the centrists

if you don't show up, nothing changes

nonvoting is moronic beyond belief

"they are either viewed with suspicion by the leadership or actively connived against"

who gives a fuck!

"adversity exists in the world, therefore i give up"

da fuq?

@benroyce @Sh41 @mmalc @HamonWry @Strandjunker

Where did I say anything about giving up or not voting? You seem to confuse seeing a problem clearly with not wanting to do anything about it.