Mastodawn

Gaming on Linux hasn't been great so far... | JayzTwoCents [27:59]

https://lemmy.world/post/34371296

Gaming on Linux hasn't been great so far... | JayzTwoCents [27:59] - Lemmy.World

Follow-up video to https://lemmy.world/post/32690521 [https://lemmy.world/post/32690521] ---- Spoiler alert: the main reason he says the experience “hasn’t been great” is because shortly before posting the video his Linux install mysteriously broke and he had no idea why. Therefore, he recommended dual-booting Windows just in case. Cue sea of comments explaining that the reason for the error he was getting was that Windows screwed up his bootloader (i.e. the problem was caused by dual-booting to begin with, LOL).

grue Aug 13, 2025

The other two main TL;DWs are that:

He justifiably complained about PVP games having non-Linux-compatible kernel-level anti-cheat
His benchmark testing showed a big performance difference between Windows and Linux on his system, which has an AMD Radeon 7900 XTX. Being an admitted noob, he didn’t notice that it was an unusual discrepancy and figured that worse gaming performance in Linux was “real,” but a bunch of folks in the comments are telling him that RDNA 3 drivers have a known issue that means the card probably isn’t running at full power and tweaking the settings can probably fix it.

This is fine🔥🐶☕🔥Aug 13, 2025

tweaking the settings can probably fix it.

Which is another points against Linux. Stuff should work correctly out of the box. That’s what average user expects.

Glog78 Aug 13, 2025

@TheBat @grue how do you define not working correctly ? ...

the GFX Card booted
the GFX Card rendered the desktop
the GFX Card rendered Games

... the only issue it wasn't as fast as possible ...
-> solution on windows -> you report and get a new driver or you get a new driver cause you don't know that you don't have the max performance
-> solution on linux -> you report and get a new driver or you get a new driver cause you don't know that you don't have the max performance

^^^ where is the difference ?

Zikeji Aug 13, 2025

I helped my mom with her windows install when the update half a year ago nuked keyboard support (I had to use the onscreen keyboard just to login). Before thar I had to forcefully install the correct wifi driver as well to get it working properly. This is was running from their factory installation. Stuff working correctly out of the box is a problem on both platforms.

unexposedhazard Aug 13, 2025

Its not the fault of linux that the hardware manufacturer doesnt make functioning drivers tho…

MudMan Aug 13, 2025

Yes it is.

For the end user, if one platform has driver support and the other one doesn't, then one platform works and the other one does not.

"It's not my bug" is a thing engineers get to say to close issues on their backlog, but it doesn't magically fix the problem for the end user if the other side says the same thing (or doesn't care).

If you want people to use Linux, then Linux has to work, and that includes the third party drivers.

unexposedhazard Aug 13, 2025

The user perceiving it as such, doesnt make it so. It makes a difference because if you acknowledge and make visible that it is AMDs fault, then they will be more likely to fix their shitty driver. Over all linux does have much better hardware support than windows, but with newer hardware the vendors are just oddly slow sometimes.

MudMan Aug 13, 2025

It does make it so.

I get so tired of shouting this from the rooftops in the general direction of FOSS devs and advocates. UX is the only thing that matters. If the user can't use it, it doesn't exist.

No, Linux doesn't have "much better hardware support than Windows". It is harder to set up and maintain, so it's worse. It doesn't matter if you can make it work. It doesn't matter if you can make things work that don't work on Windows. If I plug it in and it doesn't go, then it's worse.

This doesn't make me mad because I want to defend Windows, this makes me mad because I really, REALLY want Linux to do well, along with other FOSS alternative to enshittified commercial software, and this is an absolute brick wall blocker for that. I don't know how FOSS spaces take away control from whiny engineers who think the current situation is functional, but somebody needs a UX equivalent of a Linus Torvalds shouting abuse at coworkers about how garbage their UX is (that everybody finds hilarious for some reason. Maybe the next step is getting some HR).

unexposedhazard Aug 13, 2025

It is harder to set up and maintain

Its really not tho. Have you installed Windows 11 to a PC? Shit takes forever to remove all the ads, garbage and AI features. You literally have to edit the registry to get a usable system. Installing a popular linux distro takes like 5 minutes and then you just install whatever software you need. Any normal consumer device you plug in just works out of the box, no need to install drivers that are then again filled with bloat, ads and often even malicious code or vulnerabilities. Like ffs sake Windows 11 doesnt even function at all on a good portion of desktop computers in use today because of the TPM requirement.

Just last weekend i helped someone that never used linux before to switch. The actual install took less than 5 minutes. GPU drivers come preinstalled with the distro and work out of the box. Then another 30 minutes or so of installing and setting up all the programs they need. Another 30 minutes to copy all their old files over and explaining some general differences and thats it. Literally zero tinkering required and they are happily playing their steam games at peak performance.

Ofcourse you can get unlucky with your hardware which then involves a very annoying amount of tinkering, but when the baseline on windows is already fuckloads of tinkering then having to do tinkering sometimes is not at all a bad trade off.

MudMan Aug 13, 2025

I dual boot on most of my devices and I have PCs around the house going back to Windows 95.

I am also proposing that "just this week I installed Linux for my mom" becomes the next "year of Linux desktop" and is treated with similar derision, because man.

In all seriousness, this is delusional. All Windows devices out there work out of the box. Installing Windows the way I like it takes some tinkering, but MS's assumption is that most normies don't have a way they like at all and will happily take the default. They are right about this.

There is certainly more clicking on a Windows install in that you have to say no to a bunch of stuff, but it's ultimately fairly equivalent these days.

The problem with Linux isn't installing it (sweaty Arch users aside), the problem is what happens next. You can get lucky and have everything work, particularly with Bazzite and other distros that have a narrow focus and provide specific installers targeted to specific hardware, but if something in your PC doesn't work out of the box you're SoL.

In the example from this video the guy found out their AMD GPU was running about 25% slower than expected, so now what? And that's before he reaches an ungraceful boot failure and is stuck out of the OS instead of going into an automated recovery process.

You have to troubleshoot on Windows as well, as you do on any computer, but the likelihood of hitting an issue in the first place is lower due to it being the baseline platform, and the paths to a resolution are also more streamlined. That's the definition of harder to set up and maintain.

The sooner the Linux community gets over the delusional bubble they live in after getting their systems set up and fine tuned the faster a transition to Linux for more people will be. The delusional rah-rah isn't helping.

grue Aug 13, 2025

You’re right that it’s Linux’s problem, but that doesn’t mean it’s Linux’s fault.

MudMan Aug 13, 2025

Sure. No argument from me here.

That's just life, though. You so very often have to solve problems someone else created that get in your way but not theirs.

Damage Aug 13, 2025

Stuff should work correctly out of the box.

That’s why Windows isn’t ready for mass adoption

Eeyore_Syndrome Aug 13, 2025

Average users can’t even remember to set their proper monitor resolution/refresh rate in windows or in games.

Smooth brains around’.

WFH Aug 13, 2025

Oh yeah because spending half a day manually downloading and installing a zillion drivers and their bloat and rebooting between each install is peak ootb-functionality.

Meanwhile I was in CP2077 literally 5 minutes after booting a fresh install of Bazzite.

Cringe.

dreadbeef Aug 13, 2025

Which operating system works out of the box for gamers that requires zero tweaks?

Zorque Aug 13, 2025

More so than Linux, yeah. No system is perfect, but some are less fiddly than others.

dreadbeef Aug 13, 2025

Stuff should work correctly out of the box. That’s what average user expects. Linux is getting better every day, is Windows?

Zorque Aug 13, 2025

Linux is getting better… but it’s still nowhere near the default Windows position. A major factor in this is because development focuses on Windows for most studios, and frankly Linux is so fractured that it’s difficult to make a game work on everything Linux.

But, that’s Linux’s main strength. It has a wider flexibility than other operating systems ny design. It will likely never be as “out-of-the-box” as Windows, no matter how much they sabotage themselves.

The average Windows user would have to change wildly for them to care about 99% of the changes that most power users would. You can see that in most other platforms, like YouTube, reddit, Netflix and other streaming services. They enshittify day by day and the average user shrugs and says “that’s the way it is” and continues on.

Glog78 Aug 13, 2025

@Zorque @dreadbeef

My whole comment -> check out https://www.gamingonlinux.com/2020/11/check-out-linux-porter-ethan-lee-show-off-how-linux-games-are-built-and-packaged/ and the video in it.

PS: This guy really knows what he is talking. All of his linux ports are top notch and if needed he provides extremly fast updates. GLIBC updates breaking stuff ( which has happen once in alot of years) -> he got you

Check out Linux porter Ethan Lee show off how Linux games are built and packaged

You've heard a lot about various packaging systems on Linux from deb to rpm and the next generation with Snap and Flatpak, but what about how games get built and packaged up?

GamingOnLinux

dustyData Aug 13, 2025

But that responsibility is not on the OS. It’s a vendor and publisher responsibility. When a game doesn’t work on Windows, people don’t blame Microsoft. Admittedly the game was made for Windows. But most publishers and developers will give the same response to gamers, “fuck off, the game was for Windows XP, not W10 or W11. We will remake it and make you pay $60 again to play a game you already played 15 years ago.” The vast majority of old games that are still playable, are so through an effort from third parties. Like mod developers and vendors like Valve and GOG keeping compatibility alive.

Linux, as it has become abundantly clear after the SteamDeck and Proton, already makes gaming out of the box extremely easy and entirely viable. It was the other side of the equation who were being dickheads. Or, as an example, like Epic, or Genshin Impact, who intentionally go out of their way to break Linux viability for their games with utmost hatred.

Pup Biru Aug 13, 2025

you’re absolutely right, but it’s still the gaming experience as a whole on linux. is it unfair? absolutely! but it’s still the experience

seralth Aug 14, 2025

Most shit on windows needs adjustments out of the box to work correctly… That’s just all PCs

That’s the whole thing with consoles is that you don’t have to do that

JasSmith Aug 14, 2025

Most shit on windows needs adjustments out of the box to work correctly… That’s just all PCs

This is just not true of Windows. I trust you aren’t talking about settings in-game, of course.

Zikeji Aug 13, 2025

To your first comment about incompatible anticheat - in must cases it’s a conscious decision the publisher makes. Are We Anti-Cheat Yet it’s a good resource. Personally I find my OS preventing me from being able to run a privacy invading rootkit to be a pro as well.

To the second comment, a good amount of games bench better on Linux, not sure what’s going on with his system so I agree.

Definitely unfortunate to see a creator publishing content without first doing some research but that’s more and my common nowadays.

Are We Anti-Cheat Yet?

RobotZap10000 Aug 13, 2025

This YouTuber in particular does indeed just frequently throw out statements without properly checking whether they are even true at all.

BlueSquid0741 Aug 13, 2025

It’s a big problem with this guy for sure, but also he’s usually pretty good at admitting when he’s wrong and calling himself out on it. I wonder if he’ll look into this again to get some clarity.

astrsk Aug 13, 2025

Wait, I have a 7800x3D and 7900 XTX and feel like I’m getting exactly the performance I’d expect for 1440p gaming. What do I need to look into to see if I’m leaving performance on the table? I’m using Arch so latest rolling kernel drivers seem to be working fine based on my monitoring of card stats and “feel” when playing modern games. Since performance has been fine out of the box, I never suspected I could be missing something so it would be nice to verify one way or another.

DeviantOvary Aug 13, 2025

This is what I had to do couple of years ago: gitlab.freedesktop.org/drm/amd/-/issues/1500#note…

It seems it has been fixed since.

power saving too agressive on RX 6800, causes stuttering with fps limiters (#1500) · Issues · drm / amd · GitLab

Brief summary of the problem: The RX 6800 doesn't sustain GPU clock in a sufficient manner, causing Hitman 2 with DXVK...

GitLab

noobdoomguy8658 Aug 13, 2025

He justifiably complained about PVP games having non-Linux-compatible kernel-level anti-cheat.

I’m tired of people conflating gaming as a whole to extremely mainstream titles that fit into “online PVP with malware anti-cheat” such as Apex Legends, Valorant, and Battlefield, and then bashing Linux for “poor gaming experience”.

Their experience with titles they enjoy is very valid, as valid as any other, but it’s not the entirety of gaming and OS experience, at all. There’s tons of games that run extremely well on Linux, even out of the box, no tinkering required, both on Nvidia and AMD hardware.

Grrr.

Buddahriffic Aug 13, 2025

Personally, I find the Linux incompatibility with games that want to do shit to the kernel a plus so I don’t accidentally install one without realizing it comes with malware.

million Aug 13, 2025

I am kind of shocked about the 7900 xtx.

I did some just for fun benchmarking on Doom The Dark Ages last night and I expected Linux to be slightly slow due to the built in ray tracing but I actually got better avgs under Linux. The max frame rate was slightly higher under Windows but the lows were way better under Linux. Overall fairly close performance with a slight edge to Linux.

Maybe Bazzite is doing some magic here. What distro was he using?

Auth Aug 14, 2025

We dont actually know what was causing the performance differences between linux and windows in Jays testing. I’ve noticed sometimes linux is + or - 20% the performance of windows even with everything configured correct.

I dont like telling people that the preformance is going to be better than windows. I just point out that the preformance on linux is good enough to have an enjoyable experience. I’ll take a 10% preformance hit to escape windows.

The Hobbyist Aug 14, 2025

I’ve come across multiple times situations which arise from known issues leading to a worsened experience for the user. Linux cannot solve all problems, some are difficult to solve or some require solutions which may not be possible to be resolved but in any case, what the user usually misses, is that the OS identifies these situations and inform the user.

In this case, Jay would’ve really been off better if the user interface was able to simply inform the user of the circumstances or the limitations that it had detected.

Malix Aug 13, 2025

It’s not an unreasonable to think that a backup os is a good thing to have, even if in this case it’s the one (most likely) being the reason Bazzite broke.

Now, I did listen to the video on my way to work, so I might have missed some details, but after checking the comments it seems like Jay’s performance wasn’t really where it should have been. Got to wonder if there’s some funky gotcha with the gpu module or proton settings.

Also, does Bazzite default to xorg or wayland? I honestly have no idea.

MudMan Aug 13, 2025

It's Wayland only, I'm pretty sure.

potustheplant Aug 13, 2025

You can just have a thumbdrive with abother linux distro and live boot with that. There really isn’t a need to have another os permanently installed.

Malix Aug 13, 2025

Depends. I’m still keeping win10 (but haven’t booted into it in months), just in case when on a game night something refuses to work on linux and I can just boot to windows and game with my friends. I’m not going to start troubleshooting then and there, doubly because in general alcohol is involved during those friday night gaming sessions.

The day for repurposing those partitions is coming closer though.

potustheplant Aug 14, 2025

It sucks that you have to maintain it though. If you don’t update from time to time, you’ll have to update windows, steam, the game and probably thr gpu drivers as well.

I sincerely hope that Linux becomes at least mainstream enough to not have compatibility issues.

MudMan Aug 13, 2025

The reson he's actually giving to keep Windows is software compatibility for multiplayer games and other unsupported things. Using it as a fallback is just another reason he adds at the end when troubleshooting his broken bootloader.

He's not wrong about any of it, although for recovery you'll likely have a harder time accessing the Linux FS from Windows, so having a recovery OS on an external drive is good advice regardless.

potustheplant Aug 14, 2025

Jay you mean? I replied to a comment, not the video, and the comment only said “backup os”.

Still, I admittedly did not watch the video because I’ve stopped watching that guy years ago. He’s one of the least knowledgeable “techtubers” I know. The only thing he was good at was custom watercooling stuff, but I don’t know if he still does that stuff.

Lastly, while it does suck to not be able to play a game due to anticheat, the best way to solve that issue is to not play those games. The devs will propmtly find a way to make an anticheat that works on linux too if their playerbase demands it.

MudMan Aug 14, 2025

Going by the Steam survey Linux is like 2-3% of Steam's userbase. Not even allowing for how many of those people do have a Windows PC on the side, it's gonna be a while before you convince devs to stop having Anticheat for the sake of that market segment specifically. If they were going to balk at the losses they would have added support in the first place. Being maximalist about it is fine as a principled stance, but you don't have enough of a wallet to vote with it on this one.

The comment said "backup OS" because the video ends on a complaint that GRUB got pretty badly broken, presumably by the way they set up their Windows dualboot. I was clarifying for the record that he also suggested dualbooting for other reasons, mainly software compatibility, before things get to that point.

Again, he's not wrong on either count.

potustheplant Aug 16, 2025

You have to start somewhere my man. Also, not trying to “convince” devs to remove anti-cheat. The point would be to have a linux compatible solution.

Again, it’s not relevant that relevant how the video ends because the comment did not specifically made a reference to the video and I didn’t either. You’re adding context that you imagine OP was referring to but nothing of the sort wad explicitly said.

MudMan Aug 16, 2025

The OP's comment does specifically make a reference to the video:

It's not an unreasonable to think that a backup os is a good thing to have, even if in this case it's the one (most likely) being the reason Bazzite broke.

Now, I did listen to the video on my way to work, so I might have missed some details, but after checking the comments it seems like Jay's performance wasn't really where it should have been.

I mean, it doesn't matter, he's obviously referencing things in it, if you watch the video this is obvious. He's directly responding to things said in it.

I have lots of caveats to "you have to start somewhere". You're either trying to accomplish something or you don't. If you want to fix the compatibility issues you can either do something that works or do something that doesn't work. Doing many things that don't work doesn't necessarily get you any closer to doing a thing that does work. Beyond making a gesture I'd rather find an actual solution that make a principled stance that is not a solution to make myself feel like I'm doing something or to cope with the inconvenience.

"The best thing you can do about games not working is decide not to play those games" is great for you as a way to feel that you're not playing the games that don't work on purpose, but it won't fix the problem for people who migrate and it will do nothing to get more people to migrate despite the issue. I'm not particularly interesting in posturing for the sake of it.

Agility0971 Aug 13, 2025

If only we could keep windows on a thumb drive instead

potustheplant Aug 14, 2025

You kind of can? If you want to have an OS that you will actually use (instead of just a backup to fix your actual os) on a thumb drive, buy a usb-c m.2 enclosure, put the cheapest ssd that meets your needs in there and just install windows there.

Agility0971 Aug 15, 2025

I didn’t want to commit more than a cheap flash drive. However I tried what you said since I had a m.2 enclousure laying around. I did all of this through virt-manager by passing the external device through. The installer complained when I passed the device as a usb device. I solved it by just passing device path of the external drive to the vm and the installer didn’t know any better.

I don’t see any other reason why this would not work for any usb device. usb flash drives as well. I might try this at some point.

potustheplant Aug 16, 2025

The problem with normal fñash drives is longevity. The OS will probably wear it out pretty quickly. As an inexpensive and/or disposable solution I guess it’s fine, but it’s not reliable.

prole Aug 13, 2025

Wayland

july Aug 13, 2025

average tech youtuber not knowing anything about tech

grue Aug 13, 2025

Hey, at least he’s up-front about it and didn’t type in yes, do as I say! like Other Linus did.

stephen01king Aug 13, 2025

Complaining about Linus doing things like an inexperienced user when that is the whole point of the test is pretty stupid, honestly.

I would expect someone who knows just enough to follow troubleshooting using the command line but not knowing how powerful it can be would do the exact same thing in his position.

rtxn Aug 13, 2025

As I recall, the prompt was particularly clear about what was about to happen, hence the extra yes, do as I say! response. Linus was either too stupid or too arrogant to realize that he was out of his depth and should consult someone with more experience.

Ignorance and stupidity are very different things. This wasn’t a Chernobyl situation where the emergency scram button triggered a hidden flaw. This was a “PRESSING THIS BUTTON WILL IMMEDIATELY AND DEFINITIVELY NUKE, RUIN, DESTROY YOUR SYSTEM” situation.

stephen01king Aug 13, 2025

Most people who has never dealt with Linux will ever understand that having to type a sentence signifies that it is an important message that needs to be read thoroughly. Its more likely for them to think its just a quirk of using Linux distros, such as using sudo.

Honestly, the average person would never figured that out unless they've had experience with it before. Most people can't even read short error messages after something has gone wrong, let alone lines of text full of technical terms they have never seen before in the process of figuring out something as mundane as installing Steam.

I seriously think you guys are a bit out of touch with how non-technical people deals with their OS. The fact that you think its arrogance that made him not consult people instead of him playing the role of a non-technical person really says a lot about your own comprehension skills.

rtxn Aug 13, 2025

Do not pretend like Linus Sebastian is your tech illiterate grandmother. He’s a clown today, but he has had experience with computers in the past. Of all people, he should have known better.

stephen01king Aug 13, 2025

Man, you're really missing the point of that video. I guess when you want to hate on something, most people turn off the logical part of their brain.

grue Aug 13, 2025

Unfamiliarity with the system should make people more inclined to read shit carefully, not less!

That’s just fucking common sense, not elitism, and I make absolutely zero apologies for it.

stephen01king Aug 13, 2025

That's not the reality and you know it. If the fact that humans are generally stupid is news to you, you are just being ignorant. And thinking that your common sense applies to everyone is what makes you elitist.

grue Aug 13, 2025

No. Doing things because you’re inexperienced is one thing, but reading a very strongly-worded and scary message that explicitly told him that it was about to break his system and then doing it anyway is on another level entirely.

stephen01king Aug 13, 2025

Again, when you have no idea how much the command line can do, and the instructions is literally for something as basic as installing Steam, nobody would expect to nuke their DE.

You're also expecting that people should be able to parse an long ass message full of technical terms that they are unfamiliar with the first time they see it.

You guys really overestimate how competent the average person is. Linus was playing the perfect role of a "knows just enough to be dangerous" noob.