Ben RamseyWhat I hate so much about this timeline is that when you question the use of generative AI, the burden is always on you to prove that the AI won’t do the thing they think it will do. It’s never on them to prove it will be beneficial. They always start from the standpoint that AI works.
Derick Rethans@ramsey sounds like a similar mistake at how UK law believes that a computer can't be wrong, and then you get the Post Office scandal...
Katy TransWomenAreWomen Ereira
M1ke@m1ke @maccath @derickr Wow! I don’t think I’ve ever heard of this. It’s incredible! https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Post_Office_scandal
@ramsey @m1ke @maccath Yeah. I have read some of the technical report, and some of these bugs are just silly. Like not dealing with idempotency in a distributed sync. But the real scandal are the cover-ups, and denial from senior Post Office staff and leadership. Fujitsu is also not getting the penalties it deserves.
MelHamnavoe@derickr @ramsey @m1ke @maccath Ethics should be a compulsory part of any #softwareengineering #computerscience degree, is a hill I will happily die on. These weren’t kids off a bootcamp, these were senior BCS type engineers, who were happy to see their users jailed to save their blushes. There are no polite words to adequately describe these people.
@MelvilleSpence @derickr @ramsey @m1ke Absolutely. The fact that there were bugs in the system is just the tip of the iceberg. It's the lack of accountability. The victim being the prosecutor and withholding evidence in court, not investigating _why_ there were shortfalls - only that their systems said so, and acting like each of the people they prosecuted was the only one to hide the systemic nature of the allegations.
@maccath @derickr @ramsey @m1ke The post office management culture, tinged, as it was, with a huge dollop of racism, is a major factor. As is the ridiculous law that says Computer Evidence is to be aussemed to be accurate.
None of that excuses the behaviour of the engineers. Fujitsu, should never, ever, get another Public Sector contract.
None of that excuses the behaviour of the engineers. Fujitsu, should never, ever, get another Public Sector contract.
@MelvilleSpence @ramsey @m1ke @maccath We had a little module on my course, but not quite enough.
I also belive conferences should have talks on ethics and law. But not having much success getting these talks accepted.
Matt Brunt@derickr @MelvilleSpence @ramsey @m1ke @maccath Yeah in the 3 years of my course at Uni there was 1 module on ethics, and it was mostly really basic obvious things that didn't make you actually think.
Having worked in Cyber Sec and Trust and Safety now, oooooh my ethics are *interesting* at times :/
Edit: ethics are everywhere, not just those areas, but those areas are tough at times!
@brunty @derickr @MelvilleSpence @m1ke @maccath My degree isn’t in comp sci or any of the sciences, so I didn’t have ethics courses related to technology or business. I think I took a general ethics course, but it wasn’t required.
The @ACM has a Code of Ethics that I wish got more attention in the industry. There are a lot of things we see as commonplace today that I think would be considered violations of their Code of Ethics, and yet no one bats an eye or files a formal complaint. @ACM_Ethics
@ramsey @brunty @derickr @m1ke @maccath @ACM @ACM_Ethics Prince2, PMI, BCS all have ethics codes, claim to have ethics built into their principles, I’m struggling to think of a case over the 3 decades where these codes have resulted in disciplinary action. It’s a systemic issue across IT (and legal professions).
@ramsey @brunty @derickr @m1ke @maccath @ACM @ACM_Ethics If you think the post office scandal is bad, in the wake of the Great Financial Crash, our banks were forging customers signatures onto ‘new’ agreements and looting their assets, and courts essentially shrugged. As much as I find these engineers despicable, the problems start with corporate governance, or the lack of.
@ramsey @brunty @derickr @MelvilleSpence @m1ke @ACM @ACM_Ethics My computer science degree program in 2006-2009 had no ethics module.
Erin Dalzell (He/Him) 🇨🇦@derickr @MelvilleSpence @ramsey @m1ke @maccath haha if Laracon did that there couldn’t have been 3 talks on AI. Hahahaha