😀🚲TIL 8-speed freewheels exist, and even maybe 11-34t ones, which would be wider range than the 11-28 cassette on my #bikeFriday tandem project. I was given a direct-drive motor with the thread-on freewheel mount that I thought would only be useful up to 7sp. Am I hallucinating, #BikeTooter? Are sellers listing things as "freewheel" because they don't know it's a cassette, or did sunrace etc actually start making these for the #eBikes motors that don't have a freehub / cassette mount?
Or maybe 8sp freewheels we're already a thing but 7 has been more common/much cheaper for some other reason that all of the cheap eBikes use that? Last time I bought a bike with one had to be like 1988 or something, and I think my dad bought that bike.
gloria dei@enobacon I've never seen one. On Ebay I've certainly seen cassettes labeled as freewheels.
Davva@enobacon
They are real
https://www.centraalcycle.com/products/dnp-freewheel-8spd-11-34t
Avoid the sunrace ones. They are made out of cheese.
They are real
https://www.centraalcycle.com/products/dnp-freewheel-8spd-11-34t
Avoid the sunrace ones. They are made out of cheese.
@davva23 what is the splined part down inside it, the place where the removal tool fits? Are they using splined replaceable cogs but a bigger pattern than the cassette ones? Several pictures seem to have a locknut that looks like a cassette (not like this one you linked) but that fr-5 nut would have to come out to get an fr-1 down it, so I suspect those are just pictures of cassettes (of course no pic of the back where you see the threads and it's obvious)
Frank Bennett 🇯🇵@enobacon @davva23 Here's a page with a view of the backside, and described as a "screw-on freewheel."
https://store.shopping.yahoo.co.jp/br-select-store/20240226090110-02571.html
https://store.shopping.yahoo.co.jp/br-select-store/20240226090110-02571.html
@enobacon
The splines are for the freewheel tool. Yes, some of the other models you might see have replaceable sprockets. That's a bit unusual though.
The splines are for the freewheel tool. Yes, some of the other models you might see have replaceable sprockets. That's a bit unusual though.
Paul Southworth@enobacon I have installed some 8 speed freewheels. They weren't very good. Actually they were really bad. This was decades ago. Sachs made them and they can be found on eBay. I share your suspicion that you may be seeing mislabeled ads for cassettes but would be interested in looking at whatever you found.
Nate@enobacon They exist, for sure, but I believe they are 8/7ths the width of a 7 speed freewheel, so you may have to account for that. On a regular-regular freewheel hub, that meant swapping spacers from the non-drive side to the drive-side and re-dishing the wheel. For motor options, that may or may not be a necessary, or a problem even if it is, as it’s already certainly 135mm or greater, and regular-regular freewheel hubs were usually 130mm or less.
@voiceofunreason so the freewheel to cassette transition also involved dropout spacing? I feel like the 8sp freewheels must have come after 8sp cassettes, or was it like some manufacturers went one way incrementally adapting tooling, while some went the freehub way but both ways got wider?
@enobacon the over-lock-nut dimension remained the same, you would just shuffle spacers from the non-drive-side to the drive side, but then you’d need to re-dish the wheel so the rim was centered again. If you were working with a sub-130mm hub, that dishing was _extreme_ and really should be avoided. But, if if you’re working with a 135mm (or greater) width hub, and the hub/axle design _allows_ re-spacing (don’t know the cable routing situation), then redishing shouldn’t be much of a problem.
@enobacon my head-canon is that 8speed freewheels were a way for big box stores to offer bikes that could have 8 speed shifters, but without having to splurge for wheels with cassette hubs/cassettes, and instead use cheapo mountain bike wheels with freewheel hubs.
@voiceofunreason I take it there was also a weight + performance gain with the cassettes, where department store bikes don't try to compete. So, whatever re-uses tooling is probably what happens, to the extent that it makes number go up.
@enobacon Weight, maybe? Mostly it’s far superior axle support on the drive side because the bearing race/cone is so close to the dropout that the axle basically won’t ever get bent/broken, unlike a freewheel hub where there’s quite a bit of unsupported axle that acts as a lever. Of course, there were sone exceptions like Phil Wood hubs, but $$$.
David S@enobacon yes they exist, but they're not a good idea. Even 7sp high quality Campag freewheels from the late 80s have a tendency to go out of alignment because of the long cantilever which all freewheels have in higher gears, which causes a slight wobble on it which if too severe can even lead to skipping gears (although there's usually enough tolerance in shifting to accommodate it). 8sp is just adding more cantilever to the same force. I think this why manufacturers standardised on cassettes
@Pionir so the cassette moves the bearing out almost to the top, vs having that much more axle flexing before it reaches the dropout, or is it more between the freewheel thread and the top cog? (The latter seems less likely because it's such a big cylinder at that point.) If it's the former, maybe the thicker axles on e-bike hub motors offset that issue somewhat.