Irenes (many)just for the record
the reason there can be trans tech workers is that trans sex workers fought for our rights
we all need to stand up for sex workers, we can't allow ourselves to be embarrassed about it. respectability is a trap.
this thought brought to you by recent news https://truthout.org/articles/sex-workers-are-being-abducted-by-ice-and-abandoned-by-respectability-politics/
Sebastian "En3pY" Zdrojewski@ireneista why is this ringing a bell? I feel like I heard about something like this, some decades ago, in central Europe...
Cmdr Jenny
jo@ireneista "Sex work" is abuse, and it is horrible that many of us are subjected to it.
The only people saying it's liberating are men who benefit from it.
@jo that depends immensely on the kind of work
but with that said, we're not trying to pass judgement on the nature of the work, we're saying to stand in solidarity with the people who do it
@jo we want to note that we didn't say anything about "liberating", you seem to be responding to something other than what we're talking about
Angela Glansbury 🚽@ireneista @jo
not sure abducting people from their place of work and exiling them from their homes is as liberating as JO thinks
not sure abducting people from their place of work and exiling them from their homes is as liberating as JO thinks
@floppyplopper @ireneista holy smokes that is not what I said in the slightest.
I stand with sex workers, I stand against ICE, but I don't stand for sex work itself, and I see sex workers as victims.
@jo @floppyplopper in fairness, you didn't really, like... you clearly wanted to react to ideas coming from, like, .... proponents of sex positivity within conservative ideologies, who incorrectly equate sex positivity with feminism and pursue it in horrifically objectifying ways?
@jo @floppyplopper that's just a guess based on context clues, we had to go read your timeline to get a better sense of who you are and where you might be coming from. feel free to correct us.
@jo @floppyplopper anyway if that is the perspective you were coming from, it's a topic we suspect we share your anger about, but the thing is that it's not actually relevant to our call for solidarity? or if it is, you kind of need to explain how... your remark was such a tangent that it shouldn't be surprising people interpret it in different ways
@jo @floppyplopper anyway, please don't argue with each other in our mentions. none of this is on-topic, and therefore it detracts from the call for solidarity that we want to be the main focus of discussion.
we just felt it was better for everyone if we spend a few more words explaining why we're asking you to stop. we have now done that. thanks for understanding. 💜
@floppyplopper @jo sorry - who are you and what does this have to do with the point that trans people, especially those of us with comparatively large amounts of social privilege such as tech workers, need to stand in solidarity with sex workers?
if the two of you want to fight with each other, don't do it in our mentions
LukefromDC@floppyplopper @ireneista @jo THAT is NEVER liberating. ICE puts people in dungeons and I am NOT talking about BDSM or DnD
bunnybait [18+]@jo @ireneista i feel you may have misunderstood - the point here isn't "sex work is good", it's "sex workers deserve support and respect"
(incidentally, all work is abuse, and no form of work is "liberating" on its own. but in comparison to working a shitty job for minimum wage, some would find sex work to be liberating)
(incidentally, all work is abuse, and no form of work is "liberating" on its own. but in comparison to working a shitty job for minimum wage, some would find sex work to be liberating)
@bunnybait @jo we'd like to call everyone's attention to our remarks over at https://adhd.irenes.space/@ireneista/statuses/01K0F67BDJR6RXEY27A0E12174 (read top-to-bottom)
Post by Irenes (many), @ireneista@irenes.space
@jo@infosec.exchange @floppyplopper@todon.nl anyway, please don't argue with each other in our mentions. none of this is on-topic, and therefore it detracts from the call for solidarity that we want to be the main focus of discussion. we just felt it was better for everyone if we spend a few mor...
@ireneista respectfully, as a sex worker, i feel that challenging these misconceptions when they arise is important. solidarity is nice, but in order to be valuable it needs to be paired with a preparedness to challenge adversity
that said, an internet argument doesn't constitute activism, and i respect that you'd prefer not to have a debate in your replies, so i won't press the issue further. your support is appreciated either way
that said, an internet argument doesn't constitute activism, and i respect that you'd prefer not to have a debate in your replies, so i won't press the issue further. your support is appreciated either way
@bunnybait ah, sorry, yes, we didn't know your personal stake in the topic. that's fine, please proceed as you see fit.
@jo @ireneista Back in the 1980's and 1990's I used to do sex work myself. Gay and bi male sex workers in that era were known as "hustlers" and believe me NOBODY got away with trying to exploit us.
The "hustler" culture was one of independence and self-determination. Pimps were unheard of save for "so and so tried to pimp guys and ended up in the hospital." I heard of that happening twice, a third lesson apparenrly was not needed in my circles.
There was even a wildcat dancer's strike at the Chesapeake House after a new manager tried to get rid uf us hustlers but still have dancers. We all walked out-and most of the customera followed. . The offending manager was fired in a week but it took the club a year to recover. La Cage aux Follies and the Follies Theater took up the slack.
I both worked as a stripper and sold sex directly, hoping to pay for drag racing the modified car I had entirely on the proceeds as well as covering the cost of getting into the exact same spaces to meet partners for my own needs.
I never made enough to cover racing that old car as shit was always breaking wirh it, but I got enough to cover all my own club expenses and more.
Note that since I am aro/autistic, sex is just sex for me and nothing more. The cost to me of adding a few paying partners to an already long list of casual hookups was for me exactly zero.
Oh yeah, some (not all) of us hustlers used to quite routinely fuck oneanother for pleasure. The old joke from John Retchy's book " City of Night" was offsetting fees. Anyone could fuck us, but nobody could fuck us over.
From all this I know 100% for certain that it is possible to do sex work wirhout being exploited, as I have done it myself. Therefore, exploitative conditons elsewhere in the industry (e.g stage fees women strippers get charged) are labor issues just like the sweatshops in the garment industry. Note that sex workers in San Francisco started a unionizarion drive some years ago. In the IWW this is occupational code 690 for obvious reasons.
In the 1980's rhe term "outlaws" was applied in some places both to hustlers and to women aelling sex who worked independently for themselves.
When I was in college, a guest speaker from a "srcond wave" feminist group spoke in front of my philosophy class. She made a key logical mistake that I pounced on: she said ALL porn exploits women. I raised my had and asked "what about Gay male porn?" leaving her entirely outside he field of expertise trying ro answer.
Everything in life has an exception though: I have no problem wirh the Wimmin's Fire Brigade because the Red Hot Video outlets they burned down were selling rape porn under the counter. The sex industry of that time should have cleaned up that mess themselves but they didn't. Cutting off deliveries of everything else would have been enough.
Things have changed: a doxxing website harassing sex workers was bought out and shut down by a major porn studio a few years ago. They earned a lot of respect wirh that move. From what I hear it wasn't cheap.
Michelle HughesNormalize saying "thank you for your service" to sex workers.
Rho@ireneista fuck that bullshit, I respect the hell out of sex workers, that is *hard* work
@rho no kidding!
@ireneista it reminds me of the physical and mental labor of a busy commercial kitchen with the emotional labor of every front of house job combined (host, server,bartender)
JP@ireneista whoa you got some choice replies to this :|