Joshua McKinnon
๐ฟ๐ถ๐๐ถ "not yet begun to fight"I don't know why we're pretending this is complicated. ICE wears masks because we all saw what happened at Nuremburg when the Gestapo didn't.
That's it.
Irenes (many)@Lana yes, absolutely.
Memento Mori๐๐ช๐บ๐ฉ๐ช@Lana love that! so true!
sidereal@Lana I mean. I take your point, but ordinary gestapo members weren't put on trial at Nuremburg. The Allies very much went after a few high-profile Nazis and let the vast majority of party members walk because "they were just following orders." I think this soft approach is absolutely part of why we're still dealing with neo-nazis today.
ICE agents seem far more worried about being doxxed than they are about the law. They wear masks because the Resistance assassinated Nazis.
Sailor Anarres
Charlie Stross@sidereal @Lana There *was* some denazification โฆ but absolutely not enough, and it was only really applied inside West Germany. Nobody thought to de-Nazify the US deep south, or Russia.
What happened in Germany was enough to make them keep their heads down until after reunificationโbut the East didn't really get de-Nazified at all (and is the AfD's heartland).
(Also, photographic evidence of the Gestapo's crimes was much scarcer in the 1940s: today CCTV is almost ubiquitous.)
NiftyLinks
crispy branzino โญ (skin)
John
Jonathan Hendry
Rocketman
Ra
Wyatt H Knott@Lana Normalize shooting at masked assholes.
Saxicola โ
๐ด๓ ง๓ ข๓ ท๓ ฌ๓ ณ๓ ฟ๐ช๐บ@Lana
Just ask them to explain the gaps in their resume.
Just ask them to explain the gaps in their resume.
Yora@Lana They dragged Eichmann back from Argentina 15 years later to hang him.
(To bad Israel is now preparing their own holocaust.)
Tristram Brelstaff@yora @Lana There may well be something to the idea that an abused people will pass on the abuse to other peoples. Many of the most committed Nazis in WW2 were young teenagers in Germany during the 1917-1919 starvation years that resulted from the British naval blockade and the WW1 Armistice conditions. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=18nCZvOlRLs&t=3889s
Blockade: How the 10th Cruiser Squadron won the war | Graham Kemp
@tristrambrelstaff @Lana None of the people in the government or military of Israel were even born in 1945.
Some elder Israelis were, and many of them are horrified of what the younger generations have turned into.
Some elder Israelis were, and many of them are horrified of what the younger generations have turned into.
Jeremy List@tristrambrelstaff @yora @Lana Netanyahu plagiarises Mein Kampf a little too directly in his speeches for it to be totally irrelevant.
benny
Sean Fenian@Lana Perhaps someone should tell them about gait analysis.
โฃ๏ธa standard deviant +/- gravy@melioristicmarie @Lana And it's only getting worse. The CIA learned these lessons the hard way, when old-school opsec standards failed under the scrutiny of the modern digital panopticon and its entire on-the-ground networks in multiple nations were compromised and rolled up within a space of about two years. It's still trying to adapt.
mizblueprint
beka valentine
robert daniel pickard@Lana i think the "operator culture" thing is part of it too. its a larp. but like a larp to let them think they are "high speed, low drag" badasses to over compensate for as someone on bluesky put it victimizing "military age abuelas"
like how every dumbass sheriff insists on wearing a fucking cowboy hat all the time
Nuremberg style trials for these people are the compromise position i think
and its spreading
nassau county has banned wearing masks unless you're a cop.
"""
"Wearing a mask, if you're not law enforcement, impedes law enforcement from doing their duties and responsibilities because people will cover themselves - unless it's for a religious reason, or a health reason - they're covering themselves so they can get away with a crime in most cases," Blakeman said.
"""
Thorne Lawler
sleepy
Stanley Coupdebrique@Lana Can everybody please stop comparing ICE with nazis ? Current deportations are inhumane and must be fought against, but they're not the Shoah and I'm not saying this to minimize anything, nor even to say that your point is incorrect per se. Maybe just try to choose another example ?
No. ICE are a white supremacist secret police who are kidnapping people in broad daylight to put them in death camps.
The comparison is 100% apt. I know this is a hard pill to swallow. But we are seeing the Holocaust play out again.
@Lana Comparisons can be done. But there's two sides to comparisons : setting similarities and setting discrepancies. ICE and global migration management killed thousands, there's no question about that. But Alligator Alcatraz is no Auschwitz for the moment, which doesn't mean it can't be in the future.
There is no planned, industrialized mass extermination of US migrants happening right now, "just" a violent repressive policy made to deter poeple from migrating in the US. And this is already a crime, this is already destroying millions of lives, this can lead to genocidal actions in the future but needs no comparison with Shoah (a term I tend to prefer to Holocaust because it has no sacrificial reference) to be condemned and dismantled.
"There is no planned, industrialized mass extermination of US migrants happening right now,"
Yes there is. Get your head out of the sand.
@Lana There's a difference between what Trump is capable of and what he has done so far in the US. No one is talking about genocide there right now, not even the lawyers who recently accused Israel of genocide. You really should reconnect today's facts with the definition of what a genocide really is, what the Shoah was. What we're seeing in Alligator Alcatraz is the state-capitalist management of the workforce, even murderous it's not even specific to fascism.
Fascism and genocide are not the only horrendous things that can happen to the world's proletariat. Empires have so many other tools. Some less violent, some insidious, some even democratic. Some new. But it seems like we are not even able to develop original narratives about the current situation.
All of this has much more in common with slavery and colonization than with western antisemitism but that would have required at least some interest about non-western history. Sorry for the long toot but this is exhausting.
"No one is talking about genocide"
- They wrote a 900 page book about it.
- They built a million dollar death camp in Florida for it.
- They're building dozens more all over the country to do it.
- They funded the 11th largest military force in the world to do it.
So when you say "there is no genocide", I don't know what the fuck you're talking about. Say hi to the #toodles bin.
JWcph, Radicalized By Decency@Lana @songxisto Also, a MAGA admin official literally suggested feeding every single latin person in the entire USA to alligators.
Go ahead, motherfucker - tell us that "she meant it as a joke". You know you want to.
@jwcph Once again, I'm not saying they can't do that. I'm just questionning the comparison with fucking nazism and Shoah/Samudaripen that destroyed entire populations, entire worlds, in a whole continent forever.
I'm not trying to say, stay cool guys, it will never turn into genocide. I'm saying that every crime against humanity has it's own uniqueness that should be handled with the most cautious approach when it comes to comparison.
Nothing will ever be like the Shoah, the Herero massacre, Srebrenica... because these crimes were beyond imagination. When you start to identify the present with the past as your sole reference, you have already lost.
It's not gonna happen the same and that's precisely why it's dangerous. If tomorrow every revealed fact proves that the US killed a lot of migrants but with no genocidal intention is it gonna be fine ? If they just kill a hundred for the example is it gonna be fine ? Hell no, you know it.
clayote@songxisto Are you suggesting that killing all 65 million Latinos, as said MAGA official posted, would not constitute the destruction of an entire population?
That it would be less terrible than those other genocides?
Own your words...
@clayote You just won a ticket for re-reading my previous post.
@songxisto You are! You are suggesting that it would be less of an atrocity.
I think I'll report you for genocide apologetics now. Bye!
@clayote Hell no, I'm just questionning comparing facts that happened 80 years ago in Europe with fact that could happen in the future in the USA. You have problems with words, you have problems with rational fact description, you have problems with genocide and you are pissing on Shoah and Samudaripen victims for narcissic virtue signalling goals. Trump is turning you into headless chicken unable to use words and sentences to understand current events. We are so going to lose, it's terrific.
Trump and ICE are not nazis, they're Trump and ICE and that's enough for me. Fuck them. We need no historical justification, no need for Shoah as if it was some biblical inspiration or Harry Potter shit metaphor. FUCK. THEM. For what they do already and what they could do, not for how they compare to the past. You have no idea how the crimes they can commit could differ from Shoah.
@songxisto If you think Nazi germany started with Hitler proclaiming from day one to eradicate a people & devastate the planet, then you're a bigger fucking idiot than anyone has a right to be & YOU are as much a part of the problem as the Nazis, because not only won't you do anything to stop them; you'll actively get in the way of anyone who tries to.
In conclusion, read a fucking book & go fuck yourself in the meanwhile.
GraceC@Lana @songxisto Everything looks the same but it's not. There is this under taste, a bad smell, it's so sick what trump is doing. How can we stop him. How can we stop them from taking hard working people and killing them. That is what they will do, they will kill them. How do we stop them!
Jeremy Mallin@Lana
We should be able to identify them by following the federal payouts for wages and salaries. Financial forensics will unmask them.
We should be able to identify them by following the federal payouts for wages and salaries. Financial forensics will unmask them.
PeteChapman