David Ho

If people think American scientists are somehow going to land in Europe, I've got news for you about the difference between millions and billions.

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-025-01629-4?WT.ec_id=NATURE-20250703&utm_source=nature_etoc&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=CONR_41586_AWA1_GL_DTEC_054CI_TOC-250703

Jul 5 at 6:46pmWeb
Show threadRonanJul 5
@davidho are they not apples and pears? The American funds look like they are intended to pay for project, while the European fund is for the scientists themselves, to come work on projects are are already funded.
I could of course be totally incorrect
Show threadDan StowellJul 5
@ronanmcd @davidho The cash isn't for exactly the same things, I agree, but in many cases the lure will be new project funding too. Anyway, no-one is expecting *all* US scientists to come to Europe, so funding of about 1/10 might be about the right magnitude.
Show threadBloodymirovaJul 5

@danstowell @ronanmcd @davidho Not sure if this is still super current, but apparently , the Netherlands was/is spending 6-7 billion for R&D and looking to grow that: https://www.rathenau.nl/sites/default/files/2022-09/Vertaling%20TWIN%20incl%20figuren.pdf

The EU average R&D expenditure is 2.5% of GDP, which is also what US spends (now probably less). So EU may not have a big budget for projects but NL, Germany, Sweden, Finland, France, etc most definitely do.

Show threadBloodymirovaJul 5
@danstowell @ronanmcd @davidho the EU fund is to take care of the relocation costs, afaik. Of course, you have to apply to different projects in different countries and they all have their own complexities when it comes to visas, salaries, cost of living, etc. So I don’t expect people to start coming in in droves but it will probably make sense for enough people to make the move.
Show threadRonanJul 5
@bloodymirova @danstowell @davidho that's my understanding too
Show threadGerard Cunningham ✒️Jul 5
@danstowell @ronanmcd @davidho
Europe doesn't want all of them. Just the ones smart enough to leave.
Show threadMatej ZavršnikJul 5
@ronanmcd @davidho Replying to see if anyone corrects you.
Show threadRonanJul 5
@matejpp @davidho maybe this?
https://mastodon.social/@danstowell/114802246757034997
Show threadTorf und SchneeJul 5
@ronanmcd @davidho salaries are a significant part of any project.
Show threadnoplasticshowerJul 5
@davidho this. 1000 times. This.
Show threadArchitekt die WeltJul 5
@davidho Well, I think a big factor will be that scientists usually want to live in countries where people believe in science. That puts the US out of the list 🙃
Show threadRobert TaylorJul 5
@davidho Me thinks you underestimate tRump!
Show threadtj usiyanJul 5
@davidho What’s a few orders of magnitude among friends?
Show threadBill, organizer of stuffJul 5
@davidho $571M is still bigger than zero.
Show threadporatluJul 5
@davidho no this is just about American versus British English. It's like who knows what a milliard is really?
Show threaddisorderlyfJul 5
@davidho Wait, I thought the European fund was billions, not millions. Are they seriously only throwing half a billion? All 27 countries in the EU combined could only spare that much for thousands of high-skilled workers?
Show threadkikebenllochJul 5

@disorderlyf @davidho IDK about everywhere else but Spain could begin by paying its own excellent researchers better and get back those already abroad (~4K).
https://www.rtve.es/noticias/20220128/fuga-cerebros-cientificos-espana-buscan-medios-mayor-salario/2274020.shtml

Also, I'm not sure quantity should be a goal as much as quality. It sounds absurd for the EU to try to 'absorb' "as many as possible". Getting the right ones for specific positions, especially the top ones, seems a much wiser policy.

Fuga de cerebros: los científicos españoles salen al extranjero buscando medios y mayor remuneración

No hay una estadística oficial sobre cuántos científicos españoles trabajan en el extranjero. La asociación más importante representa a unos 4.000.

RTVE.es
Show threaddisorderlyfJul 6
@kikebenlloch @davidho Yeah, even when accounting for cost of living differences, that's still lower than I would've expected. If that's how much they'd be making, some may not even bother and leave scientific research alltogether. I hope Spain and the rest of the EU don't continue to drop the ball on this, because the benefits for recruiting this many people to continue their work would apply to everyone. I also hope that if Spain is paying Americans more that it means there's a pay bump for the local scientists as well, but I have no idea how plausible that is.
Show threadStoneBear Jul 5
@davidho oh, you might get a few. I just personally welcomed the ESA's newest engineer yesterday... but yeah. The number of people that'll cover vs. the number of people who'd like to GTFO the VS? one of these things is not like the other...
Show threadLuna chanJul 6
@stonebear2 @davidho I have a feeling the ESA is gonna catch up tp NASA fast if Trump is not ousted soon.
Show threadStoneBear Jul 6
@Luna @davidho You're not wrong....
Show threadAdamJul 6

@davidho

The E.U. might have a small carrot, but the U.S. has a big ass stick!

Show threadArbresJul 6
@davidho This is why if #billionaires were #ethical they would be #millionaires
Show threadCiarán McNallyJul 6
@davidho Enjoy doing race science for shitler so
Show threadDarrenJul 6
@davidho and I thought you were about to give a lecture on the difference between periods and commas in number representation
Show threadZoidberg For PresidentJul 6

@davidho
Tens of billions + 500 millions sounds rather cool to me...

J/k apart: terrible civilisation that is humankind...