Mastodawn

The year is 2032.

You have to buy shitcoins for every online retailer now.

Anything not approved by Mastercard or Visa's Moral Committee is only possible to view on the dark web. (domain purchases are blacklisted if the domain hosts something against the moral committee's wishes)

Food products and electronics now have to be "Visa Certified"

A rep from Visa or Mastercard has to inspect every product and ensure that it doesn't contain any dissenting opinions or other thought crimes. Only then can it be Visa or Mastercard Certified and you may purchase it with your money.

@ocean ah finally online payments will be free from both gigacorps and governments, actually winning

@katka We are simply going to have to come up with some new payment system because this shit is getting out of hand

shadowwwind Jun 25

@ocean @katka the open source payment system GNU Taler is starting to get deployed in Switzerland

Lilith Ashley Nyx Arson Jun 25

@ocean @katka@ak.kawen.space GNU taler would be so awesome if any bank actually implemented it

GNU Taler - Taxable Anonymous Libre Electronic Resources

A payment system that makes privacy-friendly online transactions fast and easy.

@root @katka @ocean unless stripe(or other big providers) implements it, we can basically forget about it existing.

@root @katka @ocean Actually, Taler seems like the most stupid idea I have ever seen.

Where is the cash stored? Well, on your device.

What if you loose your device? Well, you lost your cash.

What if you want to refund a payment? Well, you cannot.

That could be alright and fair as crypto has the exact same downsides. However:

How do I make sure my bank will accept my Taler coins? Well, you hope they will?

They cannot just refuse, right? Well, you could complain to auditors and regulators if they don't.

Well, if they refuse to accept it, can I just keep holding that cash? No, since your cash EXPIRES.

How do I keep my cash then? You need to keep your wallet open, for it to exchange the old cash for the new.

Wait, but what if my bank doesn't accept my cash? You loose it.

What if I don't open the wallet? You loose it.

Is it at least free? Nope. Fees all around. Even if you fail a transfer.

How could you fail a transfer? Well, you need to make sure the receiver wallet is active.

@root @katka @ocean
Well, when I pay I am sure it is active, right? Well yes, but your payment can be combined into an aggregate transfer done at the end of a month. At this time, you are not sure if the receiving wallet is active anymore.

Combined payments? What's that about? Well, your merchant probably wants to cut down on fees so instead of accepting all payments immediately, they pile that into a single transfer at the end of a month. They know that you paid though, so they can still give you the product, without receiving the cash.

I still want to try it out. I want my privacy! Well, that's a bummer. You can't. No bank supports it. And I don't see any payment providers getting into this either, let alone merchants.

You are better off using cash or Monero. At least you own your money that way.

Lilith Ashley Nyx Arson Jun 25

@Albi @katka@ak.kawen.space @ocean see: if any bank actually implemented it

@root @katka @ocean There is no chance a bank introduces a protocol where you can just loose money by just not logging in. There is no place for that and no chance of that happening.

Lilith Ashley Nyx Arson Jun 25

@Albi @katka@ak.kawen.space @ocean you should think of GNU Taler as a digital alternative to physical currency, not as a cryptocurrency.

- the taler client is a wallet. if you lose your physical wallet, you also lose the money that's in the wallet.
- physical cash also tends to expire. when older bills are phased out they, generally become invalid after a redemption period.
- taler does have wallet backups
- taler does have refunds

lastly, taler is still in ongoing development, feel free to talk to them directly with your concerns if you want to

10.9. DD 09: Wallet Backup — GNU Taler

@root @katka @ocean I would never trust a user to make a proper backup.
Money in bills doesn't expire like the Taler coins do.
Im sorry for assuming that Taler didn't implement refunds, they clearly do, I didn't do enough research on that.

Any potential money loss is absolutely not acceptable, especially in digital currency.

There are no chargebacks either. What if I get scammed and my money gets taken away?
Or someone gets access to my wallet (like a kid) and sends money to someone?

Also, what incentives do banks get for using this, over their own classical systems.

Also, is the Taler system under the same regulatory and oversight?
There are reasons banks are scared to replace code that they keep maintained from the 90s.

@root @katka @ocean

In poland we have a system called blik.
While it is not privacy preserving, it does everything paypal, revolut, Gwallet, Apple wallet etc do.

It is widely supported, easy to do. You don't even need a card to use it.
Just a bank account is enough to easy pay in person at any shop or online at any retailer.

It's a simple, easy solution for the customers and merchants and basically a requirement to implement by banks.

How is Taler going to replace that? By being privacy preserving?

No bank would want that, unless they are swiss or something.

Lilith Ashley Nyx Arson Jun 25

@katka@ak.kawen.space @ocean @Albi funny you should say that, taler has gotten the green light to operate in Switzerland

Lilith Ashley Nyx Arson Jun 25

@katka@ak.kawen.space @ocean @Albi and we also have a blik-like app in Sweden, it's called Swish

@ocean dont worry babe the discover furry's network is still a payment processor that hires furries

@ocean 2036 tho they kill us all for maximum quarterly proffits and for one brief moment stonks go thru the rouf

Efi (nap pet) 🦊💤Jun 25

@ocean Hypnospace Outlaw

@ocean in the EU there are at least alternatives, but they all suck. Many people use PayPal, which is probably even worse as a moral police.

In theory you have SEPA bank transfers, but nobody wants to log into their bank account, manually enter all the details and then wait until next week for the payment to be processed. So the shops use some shady providers that literally phish your bank credentials and guarantee the merchant that the payment was made.

@ocean Or they use an installment provider where you loan the money, they pay the merchant instantly and hope you don't pay in time to demand a penalty.

SEPA instant transfers are becoming a thing where you finally don't have to wait for the server's opening hours. But it's probably going to take a while for this to be integrated. And the money becomes instantly available, so if you accidentally pay a scammer, it's 100% your fault and there is no way to get the money back.

Sepa instant is mandated by law to not cost extra.
All banks have it.
In many banks it is even default option.

@lasagne @ocean I meant integrated, not implemented, sorry. Not all banks can send instant payments yet, though.

@jomo @lasagne @ocean from October 9th, they will have to

@nick @lasagne @ocean banks will have to implement it, yes. But I doubt shops will have to integrate it into their payment process, and they'll just keep using whatever they already have.

Evi SnowMew Jun 25

@jomo @ocean the SEPA thing is being worked on; SEPA instant transfers are a thing today and form the basis for WERO which is stated to be the European Payment System in direct competition to MC/VISA/PP. That said, it is moving VERY slow! Some countries are using a precursor (Payconic, Paylib and especially iDeal) and others have effectively adopted alternatives, muddying the waters sadly.

This entire situation is outright infuriating and I hope they start moving it out to the rest of the EU/Euro zone, because it’s obvious MC/VISA/PP have way too much power.

@evi @ocean isn't WERO just yet another startup that nobody is mandated to support and only the banks investing in it are the ones supporting it? We've had a few iterations of that already.

Evi SnowMew Jun 25

@jomo @ocean it’s the first time it’s actually getting development and getting used cross-border. EPI is currently owned by 16 large banks and after some mergers now has some of the more successful payment systems in their portfolio (the unifying of which is not only a started goal, but would make financial sense).

It’s not perfect and I certainly won’t promise anything, but I am giving it a higher chance of success.

WERO is just a name, the tech is 99% iDeal. iDeal started with only four banks and is now universal within its service area. So much so that larger international sellers support it even when it’s of no use in their home market. It’s cheap for banks to implement and cheap for stores to accept and paid money is effectively instantly available. The tech driving it is proven efficient and stable (it’s SEPA without buyers entering thing manually) and it’s in EPI’s interest to roll it out further and parts are actually appearing in Germany and Belgium (to be branded WERO).

Oh and no, I don’t work for them. I don’t even work in fintech. I would however really like this to work; we have had iDeal for many years and nit using the big card companies works very nicely and more people deserve it’s ease.

Steve Holden Jun 25

@ocean look up the nineteenth century “Tommy shops”

@ocean @lynn <insert "I hate payment processors" meme>

@lispi314
can't wait for gnu taler to actually be adopted more widely so this shit gets solved
@lynn @ocean

@Clover @ocean @lispi314 it's used in switzerland from what i know that's it

Colin (@ Anthrocon)Jun 25

@ocean @creideiki why does Visa/MC give a shit in the first place?
Is it purely bc puritans run it or is it something else? I swore I heard something “legit business would drop them if they allowed it” like really, who fucking cares?
You’d think they’d want to earn max money, why limit what it could be used on? And if biz wanna drop them over it, let em? They’re gonna make way more on porn than whoever they’d potentially lose.

There’s gotta be some motivation here and I’ve never pieced it.

@colinstu @ocean @creideiki I remember hearing something about Mastercard CEO (...or his wife?) belonging to some super puritanical religious organization and pressuring other top finance C-levels whenever there's some new hive of sin to smite and cancel...

@colinstu @ocean @creideiki I’ve heard that porn has the highest rate of chargebacks (“clearly it wasn’t me paying that, I’m a good married Christian. Must have been fraud”)

@ocean related: https://kolektiva.social/@slightlyflightyone/114764733157288858

Jamie J (@slightlyflightyone@kolektiva.social)

Attached: 1 image · Content warning: sex work; fictional “zoophilia” discourse

kolektiva.social

@ocean it would *finally* Pay to Discover™️

@Kancept I actually main a Discover card

@ocean @mxfraud “your” money