cm0002.ml world "news" continuing to be an excellent source of journalism and definitely NOT contributing to the spread of Putin talking points!/s
PhilipTheBucketThe story at present has 9 upvotes, 12 downvotes. The OP posted:
If any salty Nazi cheerleaders want to complain that this isn’t a news source, you’re wrong. This is an active military correspondent’s blog giving a timeline for events which are not debatable. Better luck next time.
… which has 4 upvotes and 1 downvote.
I would bet money that one or two of the upvotes on it are from the .ml moderation/admin team.
https://kbin.earth/m/[email protected]/t/1559796/THE-LUGANSK-PEOPLE-S-REPUBLIC-HAS-BEEN-LIBERATED-FROM-THE-NAZI/comment/7556873/favourites
(You have to copy/paste)
How many monis you gib?
I gib 0
100% are from .ml, Hexbear, or Lemmygrad.
I got curious about one Hexbear user, and looked at their profile, and I learned that no one can name any specific human rights abuses China has ever done, and also nobody “here” talks about Israel’s human rights abuses.
Clearly
Those are the most likely instances to believe in conspiracy theories. Spent a few minutes confirming as much via upvote tallies. I didn’t realize how badly lopsided it was, until now.
Yeah. And, also, it is clear when you look at votes that they make organized efforts to “brigade” threads sometimes, all come in and vote to influence the totals, which is something that they constantly accuse others of doing whenever their unpopular views get noticed
and dogpiled on.
ArxCyberwolfEvery accusations is a confession. Tankies really are like their conservative brethren.
Authoritarians gonna authoritarian
I don’t mean to make much out of little, especially when there are real-world enemies that are endangering us all that we could be focusing on. But it is interesting to me how little regard most of the Lemmy communists have, for anyone’s right to exist in their space who expresses any kind of dissent or disagreement, and how unapologetic they are about wielding power without regard for anyone except their own faction.
NOT_RICKI tried using lemvotes.org to check the votes, but I have had trouble getting that site to work for checking votes on some comments. Not sure why.
Edit: also having trouble checking votes on the post as well. Odd.
I think whatever shadow instance lemvotes uses either doesn’t federate with .ml or .ml blocked it (I can’t imagine why they’d do that though!/s lmao)
I suspected that may be the case, but I am still able to look up .ml users and see their individual votes. Wouldn’t defederating from the lemvotes instance block that too?
Just checked a .ml user profile I know to be prolific, the last votes it had were from April 29, so that’s probably when they got blocked and it’s just a cached version
If you know of a new .ml user that was made after then and it doesn’t pull up with them, then that’s def what happened
Ah, that would make sense. Thanks!
Same reason .world did probably
Nope, man you just love to spread false narratives don’t you?
Here’s @[email protected] votes for the comment just above. A .world account.
I think lemmy.ml defederated from them.
Every other site more or less doesn’t care. Your Lemmy votes are not private. But, lemmy.ml as always cares deeply about controlling the narrative, and talking about who is voting and how and how often particular .ml users feature in the voting patterns, disrupts their ability to pretend that they’re standing up for normalcy and a handful of isolated “liberal” instances are the weird ones who love censorship.
it would be incredible if they convinced .world to share their vote data instead of having their own instance
It’s not really necessary; 100% of what you need gets federated out to anyone who asks for it, so it’s pretty easy to just set up a little instance for yourself and then do whatever data mining you want to do.
but for things like lemvotes, they can block the faux-instance that they’ve created to get the data… if they were to get the data via .world it’d be almost impossible (without inside information) to know who to block - and it’s .world, so blocking that is a big choice
You’re betting that they would be unwilling to block .world in a way that they would be willing to block lemvotes… hm, you might be right. IDK, I’m just not sure it is all worth that much bothering about. That kind of tit for tat of blocking/defederating and then making new stuff to get around the blocking, to try to force somebody to share information they’re trying not to, is just kind of silly I think. Better to just address it by talking it out and being reasonable as opposed to having dueling software systems trying to enforce one person’s will on another person’s system. But, IDK, good luck getting a reasonable and productive response out of either lemmy.ml or lemmy.world admin teams…
PugJesusUse the Fediverse link (the star) not the normal one (the chain) to get the url.
Yeah, tried that, still doesn’t work. Pretty sure they have the lemvotes shadow instance defederated because accountability or transparency is for westoids
I bet the dv's are from .world brigaders too
.ml has a persistent myth that it’s all lemmy.world that is “against them” and dislikes the Russian government. It’s part of their attempt to pretend they are the majority. By implication, every other Lemmy instance is neutral, apparently, except “the liberal instances” (which turns out to be basically all of them).
I’m sure the downvotes are from off-instance brigaders, if you want to call it that. I have no idea why they would be centralized to lemmy.world, and I doubt they are.
I go by what I see here and with my own eyes, there.
How did you come to conclusion that the downvotes were probably .world brigaders?
I think we both know how disingenuous this is. The thread posted, dv's started rolling in. And I think it's sad people who vicariously self-validate with hypocritical, attention - seeking behavior in the same manner as politicians they whine about use the same behaviors and same "plausible deniability." Sadder still that rather than taking a moment to explore the reflection of the shadow that got us our current politicians, more of the same behavior.
At least two itt were hardcore genocide deniers wrt Palestine, when I got here and now act like they thought it was always plain to see. I hope the situation regarding Russia, Ukraine, and the USA isn't as dire as that before people start at least looking at information provided by those users, repeatedly, since I got here. Because I used to be in denial, too.
So when did you see the lemmy.world downvotes with your own eyes? Here or there?
Lol I’m just messing with you, honestly. I don’t think there is all that much productive exchange to be had here.
I'm not. You know exactly what I'm talking about. And you said you were doing better. Are you?
Yeah. Maybe.
lemmy.ml and friends have a really weird habit that I still haven’t completely figured out. They will swear something that isn’t factually true, and then if asked to justify it, they’ll switch to something the vibes of which more or less line up with the claim, but the facts of which have nothing to do with it.
Here, watch, I’ll prove it: Who are the two people itt who were hard-core Palestinian genocide deniers? What did they say that was denying the genocide?
I can guarantee that the statement they made will not be denying the genocide. Absolutely 100% guarantee. Instead, it will be “well they said Hamas shouldn’t have raped a bunch of people and that’s basically the same thing” or something along those lines. But, the shoot-from-the-hip confident assertion of “hardcore genocide deniers” will turn out to be poppycock. I think it is sort of self-selecting that only people who are comfortable with that kind of shifty vibe-y MAGA-adjacent logic stick around on lemmy.ml, because it is so endemic there that you can’t really tolerate the place unless you are fully on board with it.
Prove me wrong. Who are the genocide deniers and when did they deny the genocide? Like I say, in my view there is a 100% chance that it turns out that what they said will turn out to be something different than “there is no genocide in Palestine” but you will make the effort to pretend that it’s all the same and so who cares. But who knows, maybe I’m just running my mouth and they are here in all their Zionist glory, in the room with us right now.
I said I'm not, and you want me to embarrass decent people. You're better than this. You're worth the uncomfortable work.
My mental stability or lack thereof has nothing to do with you offering up made-up nonsense to try to prove your points
has there been shareable rigorous proof that the units in Ukraine are not nazis? I know proving a negative (ie: none are) is impossible but there must be proof debunking stuff like “this patch is a nazi patch”?
—-
and before others ramp up the pitchforks because someone honestly wanted to share links here is my reply expounding my thoughts:
fi am saying i would love a list of links to share with the assholes that show them the prop they pushed was wrong.
why does that mean to you i “need hard proof” to believe something? i just want links. triggering yourself because someone asked for some info says a lot about how you may need to disconnect a hot minute.
my neighbors are refugees from ukraine. i adore them. i can’t just ask them “why do assholes in the US claim you are nazis?” they have lost it all already.
so … yeah. have you seen anything that is shareable with the russia agitprop assholes? not that they are convincible but yeah… helps to share.
The fuck… Ukraine was attacked…and you’re suggesting that their needs to be hard proof that the entire country isn’t Nazis? WTF
fuck no. i am saying i would love a list of links to share with the assholes that show them the prop they pushed was wrong.
why does that mean to you i “need hard proof” to believe something? i just want links. triggering yourself because someone asked for some info says a lot about how you may need to disconnect a hot minute.
my neighbors are refugees from ukraine. i adore them. i can’t just ask them “why do assholes in the US claim you are nazis?” they have lost it all already.
so … yeah. have you seen anything that is shareable with the russia agitprop assholes? not that they are convincible but yeah… helps to share.
euvsdisinfo.eu/…/only-the-ruling-elite-in-ukraine…
factcheck.org/…/the-facts-on-de-nazifying-ukraine…
atlanticcouncil.org/…/nato-nazis-satanists-putin-…
FYI, posting these on .ml will likely lead to you being instance banned and then you’ll be able to proudly display this achievement unlocked!
You can go there for a list of links to Western media that went on and on about the Nazis in Ukraine before the western initiated war against them. It's what changed my mind, because at the time, at least, those links were still very much live links.
There’s absolutely Nazis serving in Ukraine, it’s just that the Azov leadership has been subsumed by the Ukrainian military rather than their former role as more of a militia. I haven’t seen any reports of Ukrainian leaders being Nazis.
I might add that there’s plenty of Nazis in Russia as well, and they serve in the Russian army too. Shit, Wagner was named after Hitler’s favorite composer and Perogi’s second in command had the damn SS thunder bolts tatted on his neck. He died with the chef though, thankfully.
Because Western media just suddenly changed the narrative.
I have no idea if Wagner was a Nazi, but I do like Flight of the Valkeries. The fylflot was used by many people and still is, not as a symbol of hate, the runes are still in use as an alphabet and magical symbols by neopagan asatru...and that's not my point.
It’d be pretty weird for Wagner to be a Nazi considering he died in 1883…
The attitude is the attitude. What word would you suggest?
Wagner is only relevant insofar as Hitler was a fan, and then that his name was selected for the Russian PMC.
Normally I’d say that could just be a coincidence, but when one of the founding members also happens to have the SS bolts tatted on him, I think it’s safe to say they’re an organization comprised of fascists.
This user is a long since tagged Tankie that just referred to .world/SJW as “The Nazi Instance” for calling attention to a clear misinfo “source” being put out as “news”
Where's the lie? Here's more for you:
Don’t those same people often accuse hexbear of brigading?
Again, where's the lie, Mr "I can't self-validate and attention seek to make up for it?”
Thanks for confirming that you do indeed think of any instance not toeing the Triads preferred narratives as “Nazi Instances”
The lie would be anyone on here talking about brigading that post but you. I don’t even see it linked in this thread at all
Edit: thinking about this some more, your take is even more fuck-stupid considering OP is the main force behind the lemmy.ml boycott which encourages people not to participate on the instance whatsoever
well I have an acct there too. since I am, in all actuality, much a lefty. my initial reply was in good faith because I believe folks need to come with links not rhetoric, and now that I have them, (it was in another reply), I can take them back over the wall.
I’m a socialist. I largely stopped going there when they decided anything other than the prevailing view of the admins is racism. Can’t have a meaningful discussion there, wrongthink comments get nuked.
I suspect you’ll get plastered with some label and put in timeout if you attempt to pierce their bubble at all.
yeah. i reckon so. anarchist socialist here too.
Right on. It’s usually pretty telling when they’re asked about their thoughts on the Kronstadt Rebellion. Vanguard socialism is fucking bunk, imo
diplodocusMost of those 2014–2021 links are still live. Here are some.
Nuland has finally admitted that the Ukraine-Russia peace deal, nearly finalized in spring 2022, fell apart because of the US, UK, and other Western governments. - Lemmygrad
Your browser does not support playing HTML5 video. You can download a copy of the video file [https://media.mas.to/media_attachments/files/113/107/658/870/477/437/original/3a02f12a005a503b.mp4] instead.
I am well aware that you’re “just asking questions,” ho ho, but this question actually does have a specific and interesting answer:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Svoboda_(political_party)
The TL;DR is this: The closest thing Ukraine has to a neo-Nazi party, which is honestly pretty close to one, had some pretty strong legitimate support before the 2014 revolution. Basically, “anyone but Russia” was the thinking of a lot of people, and Svoboda showed a willingness to do things like get in fistfights with pro-Russian politicians which got them some credibility and support. Basically, the same type of faux-populist “back to greatness, we’ll fight for you” appeal that Trump was able to ride in the US, and it did legitimately work. They got 10% of the vote in 2012, and they won majorities in some places.
In the aftermath of 2014, once there were populist candidates who were not eager Putin’s-knob-slobberers available (and, also, when their Nazi tendencies were starting to become a lot more obvious), their support cratered like a poorly designed submersible. In the 2019 elections, they Voltroned up with all the other fascist parties, hoping to merge support and at least meet the 5% threshold to keep some kind of representation in government, the aggregated blob still just got 2%, surely only that high because it really wasn’t that long ago when they were seen as a legitimate and helpful party.
TL;DRTL;DR: If Russian wanted to denazify Ukraine, they could have just done another Euromaidan, that was by far the most effective denazification event that has happened for decades in Ukraine.
Great summary. I enjoy the rebuttals that typically consist of grotesquely twisting Victoria Nuland’s words. There’s a link below of exactly that, even.
Oh damn, they're not even pretending to not being a Russian mouthpiece anymore?
They straight up tell to the face of the victims of communist genocide and mass murders that “its your fault your country was completely inhibited by nothing but literal SS nazis and honestly that also makes you a nazi”
LOL except those ‘victims of communism’ the west honors are actually a lot of nazis.
Cry more
You’re just proving the point.
You can go point by point comparing russia and nazi germany. All they have to say is well it can apply to any western country as well.
This is all vibe based ideology. Like MAGA, fascism and nazism was.
“Vibe based ideology”. That’s so spot on, perfect!
This is why I don’t donate to the devs because it indirectly goes to .ml. This is also why people think Lemmy is nothing but tankies because they’re ok with that image.
This is also why people think Lemmy is nothing but tankies because they’re ok with that image.
Which is why I advocate for pushing large instances, like .world, to defederate as they have for the other 2 instances in the Triad
We can’t force .ml offline and we can’t force them to install an actually unbiased and fair admin team.
But we can control our association with them, if the rest of the network defeds from them at the very least we can all say “yea they’re there, but we’ve cut ourselves off from them because they’re nuts” and I think that could go very far