"We gathered in a corner, and assured our children that America would save them.
As they had so many others.
But America never came. And they were killed."
SearingTruth
The US & UK also signed the Memorandum, guaranteeing its enforcement.
Very interesting fact, thank you for sharing.
Perhaps June 1st, in addition to being International Children's Day, should also be International Demilitarisation Day.
#UkraineWillWin 🇺🇦 💪
In recent years, Russia has ramped up a disinformation campaign against NATO , spreading myths to manipulate public opinion and mask its own aggression. By distorting NATO ’s role and intentions, the Kremlin seeks to portray itself as a victim of external threats rather than the true aggressor.
@captainrob @compfu @iryna Don't we know for sure this isn't the reason for the invasion? Putin, whatever else you say about him isn't *completely stupid* like you seem to imply he is.
Look at what's happened along his border since his illegal and immoral invasion of Ukraine: NATO expansion, giant armies lining up along his borders, etc, etc. He *knew* this would happen, of course, since he isn't an idiot. It's a mind-numbingly obvious result of his actions. Any child could have told him this would happen.
Also if you're trying to appeal to Americans here, maybe you're right that we don't want missiles in Cuba? I don't know, I assume they have missiles? don't they? Who cares. We aren't invading them, are we? Do you have a point?
@captainrob @iryna even if true that a guarantee did exist, Ukraine only sought membership after russia annexed Crimea and supported separatists in Donbas (which russia incited) in 2014.
also what the F*** does missiles in Europe have to do with Ukraine, if russia has a problem with European nations hosting missiles, it can invade said European nations, it can safely leave Ukraine out of it.
defensive alliances form in response to expansionist aggressive neighbors and not the other way round.
@MFDoomer @iryna perhaps you've missed all the times nato expanded before crimean actions. Also maybe you missed the puppet gov backed by usa that the ukraine had at that time and all the leadup towards that action.
None of this happened in a vacuum. You can't separate it all from history. A Marxist interpretation would incorporate all of it and quit trying to simplify an overly complicated sequence of events.
I don't agree with all of what's going on over there but I don't deny the history
@captainrob @iryna you’re right nothing happens in a vacuum.
I was born in one of the countries (then under occupation by the Soviet Union) that joined nato, I’m more than happy we did because we hate being occupied and constantly re-invaded by Russia (ussr same thing).
I’ve travelled to Ukraine and know people that were at the maidan revolution and I can tell you the pro Ukrainian movement is not a puppet of the USA. Rather a backlash to the hundreds of years of oppression by the Russians.
@captainrob @iryna if you haven’t already I would recommend watching the Timothy Snyder lectures on Ukraine. Complex history indeed.
https://youtu.be/bJczLlwp-d8?si=9lZ2hIQKxw1VspIw
For Russian expansionism, I don’t think there’s been a 50 window when Russia wasn’t invading a neighbour, it would make anyone near Russia want to join a defensive alliance.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Territorial_evolution_of_Russia
@MFDoomer I'll watch it. I also recommend you watch this.
We will probably disagree but in the end I think we both have good intentions.
@captainrob yeah there's a lot there that I disagree with, the first Turkish talks were russia demanding a surrender by Ukraine which I would find completely unacceptable. I'm not going to go into specifics and likelyhoods of US and russian interference into Ukraine's elections. Yanukovich was essentially a thief and a mobster (I've seen his palace gold toilet and all).
word of advice, don't go to Ukraine and tell any Ukrainians that they don't own their revolution against Yanukovich and russia
@captainrob @iryna you are doing socialism a disservice by tying it to Russians, it is fine to say America, a capitalist empire, is F**d and Russia as an empire is F**d.
We need something better than empires and capitalism. a strong representation of socialism in our economic system would be good and moral for the environment and human living conditions.
No need to try to justify russias monstrous actions.
@MFDoomer but socialism is tied to russia through history.
You can acknowledge that, acknowledge that nato was always used against russia, and acknowledge that usa purposely places missiles in nato and targets russia.
You can also acknowledge that russia may not have acted best in attacking the ukraine, but that it did not happen in a vacuum. Putin didn't wake up one day and randomly attack. I'm not saying it's great but people who deny the history leading towards it are disingenuous.
@captainrob a whole bunch of genocides are tied to russia too.
all I'm saying is that you can preach socialism without the pro-russian narrative man. we totally agree with history being complicated and there being reasons for things happening. but no one in the non russian post soviet space is yearning to go back to communism under moscow, because it was total repression and imperial theft.
I'm guessing that you're also anti-colonialist and I would agree, but russia is colonialist empire
@captainrob so you can look at it from a "great power" point of view and see US and rus fighting over a territory but this is insulting to the Ukrainian people. if you see it from their point of view it's a people fighting for their freedom and cultural identity against a centuries old oppressor
read up on the Holodomor,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor
and the populations transfers
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Population_transfer_in_the_Soviet_Union
it tracks well with why large parts of ukraine and baltics are russian speaking (hint genocide)
@captainrob No and No.
Try to be more creative in spinning the same old russian propaganda to justify a genocidal imperialistic invasion.
Putler himself invalidated that NATO argument.
Vladimir Putin's chief envoy on Ukraine told the Russian leader as the war began that he had struck a provisional deal with Kyiv that would satisfy Russia's demand that Ukraine stay out of <a href="https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/kremlin-ukraines-nato-ambitions-remain-threat-russia-2022-09-14/" target="_blank">NATO</a>, but Putin rejected it and pressed ahead with his military campaign, according to three people close to the Russian leadership.
Iryna Voichuk
SearingTruth
Robin Barton
RalfMaximus
Jargoggles
Matthew Eric Bassett
João Costa 💚🇵🇹🇪🇺🇬🇧🇺🇦
Captainrob
Stefan Ihringer
Erik Haugen
MFDoomer
accela
Wieke
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