Mastodawn

Conversely, I don't consider having a machine rapidly output media to impersonally proliferate your message to be a good faith interaction for your audience but I'm not the one with the banhammer

https://lemmy.world/post/29036642

Conversely, I don't consider having a machine rapidly output media to impersonally proliferate your message to be a good faith interaction for your audience but I'm not the one with the banhammer - Lemmy.World

cross-posted from: https://lemmy.world/post/29035971 [https://lemmy.world/post/29035971] > Posting here for preservation’s sake > > Image in removed comment was the attached Palpatine image. Curious to see if the same admin mod would remove these screenshots if I crosspost them to [email protected] [/c/[email protected]] , which they also admin and mod. Would I get a fair trial there or will my dissenting and others’ be silenced? > > You can’t say you’re against disinfo if you’re knowing and intentionally promulgating it and abetting its usage. They also didn’t even remove the Reddit watermark. > > This is why I don’t assign identities unto myself, because you criticize one action done wrong by leaders of an ideology or movement and bam! you’re shut out of it completely. They’ve lost the aid of an ally and progress is impeded by being shorted a participant trying to correct the course.

db0 May 3, 2025

YDI.

野麦さん May 3, 2025

YDM. Go be an annoying liberal somewhere else and learn how to follow community/instance rules ❤️

Unruffled [they/them]May 3, 2025

You can complain all you like in here, feel free.

Different communities have different purposes and different moderation guidelines. So I think this is a ridiculous take. The lefty memes comm is of course going to be seen by certain people as “propaganda”, but it’s not for them, it’s for leftists. If other folks also enjoy it then great, but if not, no big deal.

You can’t say you’re against disinfo if you’re knowing and intentionally promulgating it and abetting its usage. They also didn’t even remove the Reddit watermark.

(So) what?? We have no rules against reposting AI generated images in that community. What AI images have I ever posted to FvD? None, zero, sfa… unless they were the subject of a debunking article. So it was just a bullshit troll comment afaik.

But we do have an instance rule that says “Fuck around and find out”, a community rule in Lefty Memes that says “1. Socialist Unity in the form of mutual respect and good faith interactions is enforced here” and finally " 3. No liberalism, (right-wing) revisionism or reactionaries."

This is why I don’t assign identities unto myself, because you criticize one action done wrong by leaders of an ideology or movement and bam! you’re shut out of it completely. They’ve lost the aid of an ally and progress is impeded by being shorted a participant trying to correct the course.

Also you:

I’m not feeling a lot of allyship vibes from that tbh.

The reason you got a permaban is because the anti-ai crowd usually can’t stop themselves from banging on about it. If you agree to not post bullshit troll comments in the community again then I’ll consider reducing the ban.

Squorlple May 3, 2025

You’ll notice that my interactions with the community prior have been sparse; the community clearly does not live up to its self-description of “a place for undogmatic shitposting”, but there are some points presented in the bounded ideology that I see reason in and there are some posts/comments there that I see needing reason added to them. Your quote of mine and the following screenshot are not in disagreement with each other. My loyalty is not to an in-group. My loyalty is to reality. My alliance is with the allies of truth, and the content of the dogma is partially true so I considered the community a partial ally with whom we shared some common goals and enemies. I have no in-group, and my out-group is comprised of those who arbitrarily out-group other people and those who are obdurate for the sake of maintaining an ideological identity.

Propaganda is still propaganda even if the views and message are both factually and morally correct.

It wasn’t a troll comment; it was earnestly pointing out a contradiction of values. It doesn’t make sense to demean falsehoods to one crowd and turn and peddle synthetic messages to another crowd. Just because something is or is not in a rule somewhere does not make it inherently right or wrong, and I spoke out against two things that I saw to be wrong.

Conversely, the pro-AI crowd should stop disrespecting their audience by cross-contaminating the feeds of real and zealous imitation. I will call a spade a spade and I will content that is lazy, impersonal, and manipulative to be lazy, impersonal, and manipulative (lazy content can still be good if done personally plus correctly). It’s neither respectful nor in good faith to an audience to expect them to be placated and content with a façade such as that. I’d rather the standard for content here not be degraded to such a value.

I genuinely don’t understand Rule 3’s relevance to this situation. It kind of just sounds like “If you’re not with me 100% then you’re against me 100%”?

I don’t need a reduced ban. As you may have inferred before, I didn’t plan to engage much with the community in the future anyway since it is uncomfortably dogmatic. The silencing I received to dissent also drove away any chance of me wanting to integrate with that particular in-group. I more so wanted to preserve the reaction of power when truth is spoken to it.

Unruffled [they/them]May 3, 2025

Propaganda is still propaganda even if the views and message are both factually and morally correct.

The whole point of lefty memes is to post (occasionally) entertaining leftist messages in a meme format for folks who appreciate them. Under your definition they would all be considered propaganda, even though they are clearly posted in a “Lefty Memes” community and factually accurate? I’d get your point if it was masquerading as a general memes community and we only allowed leftist content.

It wasn’t a troll comment; it was earnestly pointing out a contradiction of values.

You made a comment inferring “pirates” who use genAI are monsters. If that is a good faith comment, then I’d hate to see your bad faith comments.

It doesn’t make sense to demean falsehoods to one crowd and turn and peddle synthetic messages to another crowd.

Falsehoods? Synthetic messages? I saw the post, liked the message, and crossposted it to lefty memes. End of story. The rest is all happening in your head somewhere. Who or what originally created it is largely irrelevant to me because it’s a memes community, they are all copied from somewhere. I simply post or crosspost things I think the community will like and are aligned with leftist ideas.

flicker May 5, 2025

You’re allowed to not like stuff in a community. You’re allowed to express that displeasure. You’re also allowed to not enter or engage with a community that’s not aimed at you, and let other people enjoy the things they enjoy.

southsamurai May 3, 2025

Mmm, sorry. I agree in principle, but that was definitely outside of community rules.

That makes it YDI, even though it seems a permaban was issued. That could matter, because this could have been your first offense, and that’s a heavy handed action with no malice in the comment removed.

But if it isn’t your first offense, or it was compounded after the fact with comments, messages, or other events that exacerbate the original rule breaking, a permaban could be justified.

While I understand that the concept of responding to a meme with a meme being rule breaking is one that isn’t exactly clear in those rules, I believe that a reasonable person could tell that the meme used in response is one that is commonly used in a dismissive and/or condescending manner. The subject of the meme image, and the “irony” that meme conveys is not close to the line, it’s a pretty blunt put down.

Since it’s in meme form as well, it isn’t engaging, it’s just an offhand, smug response. Within the rules of that community, that is absolutely a removable comment.

I rarely do this, but I disagree with a lot of the established rules of that community, and have it blocked partially because of their specific rules and moderation policies. While that’s off topic for this community, I want to make it clear that I would, on an emotional response level, have preferred this be power tripping. But it just wasn’t.

Draconic NEO May 4, 2025

Squorlple indeed has a long history of bad faith trolling, and Bad-jacketing. He should consider himself lucky he wasn’t given a permanent instance ban. I certainly would’ve had I been in charge of that descision and I can’t blame other people for having the same opinion. There’s only so much bullshit people can tolerate from someone before it’s clear that they’re 1. Never going to contribute anything in good faith, and 2. Never going to change. It’s why we have permanent bans in the first place.

Eugene V. Debs' Ghost May 4, 2025

Squorlple was banned from blahaj for reference of how bad faith they are.

Draconic NEO May 4, 2025

Oh yeah I saw that, I almost forgot about that, not the best look for Squorlple…

Eugene V. Debs' Ghost May 5, 2025

Bad faith troll whines when someone catches them being a bad faith troll, news at 11.

nargis May 3, 2025

YDI. It’s a leftist community. Stop brigading and read the rules.

mke May 4, 2025

Tell activitypub to stop putting db0 AI slop on my front-page, then.

Mystic Mushroom [Ze/Zir]May 4, 2025

You need to use the block function instead of brigading communities and users who post AI content here. Activitypub services provide you with ways to stop seeing content you dislike in your communities. You’re choosing not to use it and instead complaining that the content exists, when it and the users who post it have more than every right to post it in this community.

If you are an instance admin you can choose not to federate with it but you aren’t, you’re a user. So either suck it up or block some people and communities.

mke May 4, 2025

I don’t think we’ll agree here, but it has to be said:

There is no brigade. You need to stop trying to redefine that term. There is no coordination, no plan, no private organizing. What you see is an entirely natural, decentralized reaction to an obnoxious and harmful trend.

You’re broadcasting, shouting at a megaphone, then blaming people who didn’t preemptively put earplugs in. You’re blaming people who have every right to use or not whatever platform features they wish and framing their disjointed actions as something else.

If you don’t like these reactions, you’re also free to stop seeing them. So maybe suck it up, or block some people? This argument sucks.

Mystic Mushroom [Ze/Zir]May 4, 2025

There is no brigade. You need to stop trying to redefine that term. There is no coordination, no plan, no private organizing. What you see is an entirely natural, decentralized reaction to an obnoxious and harmful trend.

This isn’t something you can deny or prove innocence of, as brigaders and astroturfers are known to lie about their intentions, but FYI by trying to deny the existence or nature of brigading you’ve already failed and made yourself look even more suspicious. They always are “individual opinions” or “grassroots movements” according to the ones participating but the proof is in the votes and comment history of the users, and yours doesn’t make you look particularly good.

mke May 4, 2025

Because I make no secret of my opinions and don’t filter what I interact with?

If I was part of a secret, AI-hating cabal, what the hell would I be doing here on a thread with like 50 interactions? This has got to be the least advantageous, least productive, most contrived way to further my goals: in the midst of “enemy turf,” with no support, getting downvoted and looking like a loser trying to explain what brigading isn’t.

There’s no pretty way to say this, but you’re acting like a conspiracy theorist.

I’m not denying the nature of brigades, I’m saying a lot of the internet hates the genAI trend, is extremely open about it, and that post hit All. This is the simplest explanation, which you’re saying isn’t the case despite having no actual evidence pointing otherwise. But merely trying to prove the obvious would feed into an apparent persecution complex.

If I stay quiet, you’re right, but if I talk you’re righter. Have a good day, I guess.

flicker May 5, 2025

The person you’re replying to might be telling the truth, no way to know, but this instance got a lot of negative interaction from an actual brigade earlier today, so I wouldn’t be surprised.

Mystic Mushroom [Ze/Zir]May 5, 2025

Yeah, I wouldn’t be either, there have been brigades for a while actually and all the brigaders claim they aren’t that it’s just “individual opinions”. It is hard to know definitively and that’s really what they use to not get caught. Even if some of the people I’ve banned aren’t technically brigaders I don’t feel bad about it since they were anti-AI trolls in the first place, they don’t get anything out of my community. None of them are innocent or have been. OP of this thread certainly also isn’t innocent.

flicker May 5, 2025

Yeah, I saw that later. This is clearly a bigger problem than I knew until like… two hours ago. But! That’s just evidence that the mods and admins are doing a fantastic job!

irelephant [he/him]🍭May 5, 2025

That’s not activitypub’s fault.

You can block the instance in settings, or block individual communities.

mke May 6, 2025

I’m not blaming AP, just refuting the absurd brigade claim.

irelephant [he/him]🍭May 6, 2025

I don’t think its brigading, because lemmy is small enough for most people to encounter the same posts.
I do think its better to just block people and comms which use ai.

mke May 6, 2025

Thank you for acknowledging that. You may be right.

I think it’s difficult for folks, me included, to merely hide what they consider to be an issue. They’re not comparable, but if I saw a self-proclaimed leftist community sharing anti-union propaganda, I’d rather discuss it. I’m not claiming that’s the healthiest mindset or the correct one, but I don’t think it’s entirely without reason.

These situations, wherein a group broadcasts an idea to everybody, then silences dissent because it’s “their turf, their rules,” never seemed fair. Shields like “they’re trolling” and “brigading” intensify the issue. Why does the blame lie solely with one side, when the subject is controversial and sharing it with everyone was also a deliberate choice?

There was talk of an option, for communities, to self-exclude from “all” feeds. Wonder if such features could be a better solution, here. I’ll refrain from talking AI and ethics in db0 in the future, but I feel like they should do better, themselves.

Mystic Mushroom [Ze/Zir]May 6, 2025

It’s possible that not all of it is brigading but when 10 or 12 accounts with no content at all or content that’s old as heck come to start downvoting I think it’s safe to call that an act of brigading, which is my I’m saying there is brigading.

irelephant [he/him]🍭May 7, 2025

Yeah, though those could just be lurkers.

kux May 3, 2025

db0 is pro slop so ydi

it is kind of fucked that the post in question is a repost of a bot’s repost of a reddit post of ai shit. look at that pile behind him, is it supposed to be money or uno cards or fuckin what

but their instance their rules

Unruffled [they/them]May 3, 2025

Have you ever heard the expression “can’t see the forest for the trees”? I mean I like Marshall McLuhan and all, but if all you are talking about is the medium then you’ve kind of missed the whole point of the post, which was the message.

kux May 3, 2025

it is a fine message in itself but i am (probably? never read the book) with your mate marshall on this one, it is contaminated by the medium from the outset and the filtration through bot to man to bot to man has only debased it further

original (?) on /r/union old.reddit.com/r/union/…/please_remember_this/

version retrieved fom r/50501 old.reddit.com/r/50501/…/please_remember_this/

many top comments on both threads being slop, slop, shit, slop, etc. i’ve no love for reddit but i think they have the measure of it

pro trade union messages produced by anti trade union means are detrimental overall

still ydi as i said, i know this isn’t the instance to whine about gen ai

Unruffled [they/them]May 3, 2025

It does the community no good to allow anti ai warriors to start brigading every post containing so called “ai slop”. It’s just a new pointless diversion for keyboard warriors to fight over, accomplishing nothing in the process but derailing any meaningful discussion on the content of the OP. There are other ways to fight back against corporate power, such as making access to genAI technology free and open source, like db0s ai horde project.

kux May 3, 2025

disengage

Mystic Mushroom [Ze/Zir]May 4, 2025

You’re telling an admin of this instance who’s highlighting the hypocrisy of your arguments and position, one who is in charge of this space to disengage from you? Who exactly do you think you are coming into this space space that isn’t yours and bossing the people in charge around?

db0 May 4, 2025

Don’t violate the disengage rule.

go $fsck yourself May 3, 2025

I disagree with how a lot of that thread was moderated, and I do think that a permaban was a heavy-handed. Not that you weren’t necessarily entirely without fault.

I’d say it’s a combo of BPR and PTB

_cryptagion [he/him]May 3, 2025

This is a copyleft, pro genAI instance. We don’t even agree that copyright or intellectual property is moral, let alone the argument tat keeps popping up that it’s “stealing”. Once you release an idea to the world, it becomes part of the human condition. It doesn’t belong to you, and saying you “own” something that’s a part of another person’s consciousness is akin to saying slavery is acceptable.

There are plenty of safe spaces for that neoliberal capitalist bullshit, but on an anarchist instance is not it. They deserved it, and I think it should be made into an instance-wide rule that anti-AI conversation be banned for being in direct contradictions to our morals and political philosophy, with repeat violators being banned.

go $fsck yourself May 3, 2025

Those aren’t the only reasons to dislike AI. So, claiming that any argument against AI is inherently neoloberal capitalist is ignorant and childish.

_cryptagion [he/him]May 3, 2025

Even were that true, which is isn’t, this is our instance, to run as we see fit. It isn’t up to right-wing liberals to decide how an anarchist collective runs their own space. If you don’t like genAI, so somewhere else and don’t post your cultist brigading bullshit here. You sure as fuck don’t see us going to .world and harassing you lot over AI, do you?

So what, the respect we show you is too fucking much to return?

go $fsck yourself May 3, 2025

I see. So your method of arguing is to label anyone whom you disagree with as “right-wing liberals” and you don’t intend on having a genuine conversation.

_cryptagion [he/him]May 3, 2025

no, my method of arguing is to label liberals who espouse right-wing capitalist ideals as right-wing liberals. if you don’t like being called right-wing, don’t fucking pander to corporate bullshit in a LEFTIST INSTANCE. it’s really not rocket science, guys.

go $fsck yourself May 3, 2025

Then you must first explain how all arguments against AI are right-wing capitalist ideals. Which you have not done that, so the way you are acting is preposterous.

Unruffled [they/them]May 4, 2025

Being anti-AI is an intrinsically reactionary position to hold.

Leftists should be trying to seize the means of production, not trying to destroy them.

The anti-AI movement puts heavy emphasis on the impact on artists, but most leftists don’t believe in copyright or the ownership/privatization of ideas and that includes things like art. Artists absolutely should be publicly funded and properly compensated for their work. But simply fighting against AI tooling will accomplish nothing, and arguably serves to perpetuates copyright rent-seeking by corporations and individuals.

Fighting against or banning the use of AI tools in leftist spaces will accomplish nothing, except to give the capitalists an advantage over leftists. The genie is already out of the bottle. AI tooling, although incredibly annoying in some aspects (such as when it gets inserted into fucking notepad) is also extremely powerful and useful for certain applications. Why would we want to fight with a hand tied behind our backs over some romantic idyll of pre-gen AI times?

A hammer can be a tool or a weapon. Same with AI. Nobody is talking about banning hammers, despite the fact they are often used as weapons or for nefarious purposes.

The anti-AI movement is primitivist and regressive in nature. It hearkens back to the “good old days” when artists were well compensated by rich patrons, and artisans and skilled craftsmen filled every small town. It’s a fantasy that never really existed, and one that will never exist under capitalism.

FOSS AI projects are available such as Db0’s AI Horde which seeks to democratic access to GenAI. There is no requirement to use corporate tooling.

go $fsck yourself May 4, 2025

That’s an opinion, not a fact. And while I agree that in many circumstances there are plenty of reactionary responses, it does not get anywhere close to 100%.

Irrelevant to the point.

You’re conflating an “anti-AI movement” with just not liking AI.

I never made any claims about banning AI or even fighting against it, really. Not sure why you’re ascribing that to me, and it doesn’t provide any argument to the main claim that “disliking AI is always from right-wing capitalism”.

While I get your overall point here and mostly agree that AI is ‘just a tool’, the rest of your point is based on banning, which is not part of the discussion. Also, it’s a pretty false equivalent argument, but I assume you’re not expecting it to be a 1:1 comparison, just trying to make the point that it’s just a tool and should not be labeled as inherently bad.

Once again, you’re conflating an “anti-AI movement” with just not liking AI. I don’t know if there’ some big coordinated “anti-AI movement” that makes that argument in particular and I’ve somehow never heard of it or seen any evidence of, but it seems to me you’ve created a fake, absurd strawman.

That’s great and helps obviate one of my main issues with AI.

In total, you’ve made zero arguments for the logic that any sentiment of disliking AI should be met with hostility and all comes from a source of “right-wing liberals”. All I see is unfounded attempts of vilifying people who simply disagree with you by shoving a label onto them. Another way to describe this is “bad-jacketing”.

I suggest you read about “bad-jacketing”. Particularly as a moderator and that it is described in rule 1 of the instance.

I will now disengage because I have ample evidence that you and _cryptagion don’t intend on a genuine interaction.

Not Liking Someone Doesn’t Mean They’re a Cop | Anarchist Archive

Anarchist Archive

Mystic Mushroom [Ze/Zir]May 4, 2025

You’re conflating an “anti-AI movement” with just not liking AI.

@[email protected] is literally an admin, they have access to voter and user metric data that you don’t. Who are you to claim there isn’t brigading or a movement going on? That’s right you don’t and can’t actually know better than they do. If I didn’t know better I might think you were trying to deny this issue due to your part in it.

@Flatworm7591 - Divisions by zero

wiki-user: unruffled > “In every State, the government is nothing but a permanent conspiracy on the part of the minority against the majority, which it enslaves and fleeces.” > >- Mikhail Bakunin Queer/trans gender abolitionist | anarchist | piracy enthusiast aspe:keyoxide.org:LSZT4AL3BUPMJZGHIJAVZAJLHY

go $fsck yourself May 4, 2025

Blatantly ignoring disengage while also making absolutely unfounded and ridiculous claims. Absolutely shameful.

You think admins are infallible? You’re only attacking me with these claims because I’m calling out someone who happens to be an admin. They are still human and, clearly, capable of doing wrong.

The whole point of this conversation is that it is wrong to assume everyone who simply shows a dislike in AI is a ‘right-wing pro-capitalist liberal’. That is a judgement of a person’s ideals and values based on a single metric that has no inherent connection to right-wing liberalism.

Now you have convinced me to block this entire instance because of this abhorrent behavior.

NSRXN May 4, 2025

it’s another user entirely. they didn’t ignore disengage, they are commenting on it

go $fsck yourself May 4, 2025

Right. I misunderstood thinking that it meant that all people must respect the person’s desire to be left out of it. It would probably be a better rule if that were the case. But, apparently rules don’t really matter here anyways.

I also missed an important part of it:

For a disengage call to be valid, it must not be accompanied by other arguments on the existing topic. A disengage is not meant to be a trump card to have the last word.

It still doesn’t excuse the disgusting behavior.

I simply wanted to be done, because there is zero respect shown here.

I’m also now frustrated that the instance block appears to not be working, since I got a notification for this reply.

I don’t want to deal with any interactions with anything or anyone related to db0 after this appalling lack of any respect, utterly shameful accusations, and weird cult-like attitude towards an admin.

NSRXN May 4, 2025

an instance block will stop db0 content from showing in your feed… comments will still populate and users can still comment back to you.

_cryptagion [he/him]May 4, 2025

Since you obviously have no intention of actually disengaging, there’s no problem with me pointing out that the disgusting behavior here is you intruding upon our instance to push your own shitty agenda, while insisting we abide by your dumbass rules about civility so we don’t hurt your fweelings. This is the problem with you self-righteous .world liberal hacks, you think the entire fediverse is your own little kingdom to do whatever you wish in, but can’t handle your cult-like world views being challenged.

Absolutely disgusting, and since you won’t be seeing our communities anymore, I say good riddance, and absolutely nothing of any value whatsoever was lost by not having you around.

Mystic Mushroom [Ze/Zir]May 4, 2025

Now you have convinced me to block this entire instance because of this abhorrent behavior.

Don’t let the door hit you on the way out, troll.

db0 May 4, 2025

Blatantly ignoring disengage while also making absolutely unfounded and ridiculous claims. Absolutely shameful.

You are attempting to abuse the disengage rule. If you want to disengage, you’re not supposed to also try to put the last word in. Just disengage without arguing further.

The Disengage Rule - django-\/\/ i K |

Mystic Mushroom [Ze/Zir]May 4, 2025

@[email protected] You have no post or comment history whatsoever for two years, yet here you are in this thread downvoting comments. Sus…

@[email protected] @[email protected] This is what I mean when I say there is brigading here, people are using bots or their own alt accounts to vote on accounts

@Flatworm7591 - Divisions by zero

wiki-user: unruffled > “In every State, the government is nothing but a permanent conspiracy on the part of the minority against the majority, which it enslaves and fleeces.” > >- Mikhail Bakunin Queer/trans gender abolitionist | anarchist | piracy enthusiast aspe:keyoxide.org:LSZT4AL3BUPMJZGHIJAVZAJLHY

Unruffled [they/them]May 4, 2025

Yeah, thanks for the heads up. I’ve proposed in [email protected] to update the instance rules to disallow anti-genAI trolling in communities where genAI is allowed. They can take their pro-copyright-rentseeking campaign elsewhere. Don’t know why they thought it would fly here.

I’ve got no real problem with folks taking that position tbh, but it’s not ok to dogpile posts on our communities like has happened here. I’m also somewhat sympathetic to the argument that GenAI is having an impact on artists’ livelihoods. But they haven’t connected the dots that this is only an issue because of greedy corporations trying to fuck over artists. They are directing all their anger towards GenAI instead of the real source of the problem. By all means advocate for greedy corporations to stop using AI to increase their profits at the expense of artists. But to come into a leftist space and demand that we stop using AI too is at best tokenistic, and at worst just serves to obfuscate the fundamental problem.

The users engaged in trolling here and tying to excuse it as “activism” should think harder about who they are fighting with and why. Even if we did capitulate and ban genAI, that would have zero impact on artists, because we don’t pay for artists in the first place. It’s nothing but virtue signalling and tokenism. The Luddites didn’t go around breaking into peoples houses and smashing their spinning wheels. They went to factories owned by rich men and companies to destroy machinery in order to disrupt production and fight for workers rights and safety. Good on them too! If the anti genAI brigade were fighting against Getty’s (or Adobe, etc.) use of AI that might actually have a useful leftist purpose, and the analogy with the Luddites would work. Instead they are here causing a nuisance in a leftist community, over some random crossposted GenAI meme. Good work guys - job done I guess, the capitalists must be quaking in their boots right now because of your “activism”.

/0 Governance - Divisions by zero

A community for discussion and democratic decision making in the Divisions by zero. Anyone with voting rights can open a governance thread and initiate a vote or a discussion. There’s no special keywords you must be aware of before you open a thread, but there are some. here’s the governance thread manual [https://github.com/db0/threativore/blob/main/README_manual.md#governance]. ## Answers * What is Governance [https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/35725820] * About voting rights and flairs [https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/35557475]

Mystic Mushroom [Ze/Zir]May 4, 2025

Yeah I agree, the Anti AI movement (and it is a movement) is extremely reactionary and doesn’t accomplish anything. Certainly isn’t helping artists. And yeah they’re not even comparable to luddites who went after factories back in the day. Anti-AI trolls are going after individual people, often harassing people, also deciding to use any arguments even ones proven to be lies or faulty. They’re inadvertently helping big corporations by making themselves and their movement look like quacks or trolls.

Yeah, thanks for the heads up. I’ve proposed in [email protected] to update the instance rules to disallow anti-genAI trolling in communities where genAI is allowed. They can take their pro-copyright-rentseeking campaign elsewhere. Don’t know why they thought it would fly here.

Did you post it yet? I didn’t see it there.

irelephant [he/him]🍭May 5, 2025

The Luddites were a 19th century guerrilla movement that smashed textile machines, burned factories and threatened their owners. But they were not motivated by a fear of technology […] the luddites […] were engaged in the most science-fictional exercise imaginable – asking not what a technology does, but who it does it to and who it does it for. The Luddites, you see, were skilled weavers whose intense physical labor produced the textiles that clothed the nation. The difficulty of their trade – both in terms of esoteric knowledge and physical prowess – allowed them to command high wages and good working conditions.

All that was threatened by the advent of textile machines, which produced more fabric in less time, and required less skill. The owners of textile factories bought these machines with profits derived from the weavers’ labor, and then used those machines to grind down the weavers. Their hours got longer, their pay got shorter, and many of them were maimed or killed by the new machines.

Weaving engines are ingenious and delightful machines. The Luddites had no beef with the machines – their cause was the social relations that governed those machines. By painting Luddites as mere technophobes, we strip ourselves of the ability to learn from history. The lesson of the Industrial Revolution is that merely asking what a machine does and not who it does it for and to can lead to literal genocide.

pluralistic.net/2022/01/04/general-ludd/

Pluralistic: 04 Jan 2022 – Pluralistic: Daily links from Cory Doctorow

Unruffled [they/them]May 5, 2025

The Luddites had no beef with the machines – their cause was the social relations that governed those machines

Agreed, and I have no beef with the Luddites. I’m fully supportive of the effort to hold commercial AI corporations accountable for the way they are enabling owners of capital to exploit AI to cause harm to artists and other workers. But if the anti-GenAI crowd followed the example of the Luddites, they shouldn’t be blaming the tooling. If they went after those who create and/or use the tooling to exploit people, rather than attacking those who use the tools (especially for a positive or harmless purpose) then I’d be fully supportive of that goal. Instead they are too busy cyber-bullying fellow Lemmy users and mods.

irelephant [he/him]🍭May 5, 2025

Yeah, there was an “anti-art-theft” account on tumblr that just went around harassing people for using ai.
One person has a pixel art plant pfp which was blurry from image compression, so the account thought it was ai, the person with the plant pfp was harassed about it, even though they didn’t use ai.

even if they did use ai, I don’t see why you’d want to harass someone for that anyway.

Mystic Mushroom [Ze/Zir]May 4, 2025

I think @[email protected] is probably another one, does have history, but 2 months inactive. Maybe I’m being too aggressive but this Anti-AI brigade is out of control.

Unruffled [they/them]May 5, 2025

I’m not sure about that one but feel free to community ban them if they have been downvoting a lot. I instanced banned the (almost) empty account you mentioned. Fuck those guys. I hope you can feel free to reach out to me or one of the other admins if you get cyberbullied and you need someone to disclose to.

shaiatan May 6, 2025

Hate to disappoint, but I’m a real, live human being.

Mystic Mushroom [Ze/Zir]May 6, 2025

That’s good, glad to hear it. That wasn’t really something I was arguing against though, as I have no doubt that some probably many of the vote manipulation accounts out there are manually operated.