Felicitas Pojtinger 🌅I'm becoming more and more convinced that the best way forward for most OSS foundations is to become an e.V. like KDE. Things just work better when they are hosted in Europe under a more sane legal system and without having to worry about the weird public secrecy legal stuff that US foundations/non-profits/etc. work with
With the world turning away from the US and it becoming an increasing liability to be an org that's supposed to be global from the US (see e.g. RISC-V), it's also just a good way to de-risk these projects
Plus, elections, CoC issues etc. are just so much more established in an e.V. and things like due process etc. can be legally enforced instead of nebulous decisions made behind closed doors with no consultation or options for appeal
ataxia 🐀📈@pojntfx lol, lmao, ahhhahahha, XD even
David Fleetwood - RG Admin@pojntfx While I broadly agree, my experience in the EU is that the general sentiment is literally decades behind the USA in terms of racism, sexism, trans rights, etc. I know the FOSS community is on balance ahead of the curve, but the things I see excused routinely over here make me question how progressive social progress really is.
@reflex I'm not really sure how true that is anymore (mostly having experienced Germany myself). Sure, in 2015 I'd have 100% agreed - but with the US in 2025, just compare the sentiment and law towards trans people to that of Germany in 2025, and it's a whole different picture IMHO
Then add trade relations, export regulations, the inability to travel to the US safely, ...
@pojntfx Oh I know things have taken a turn for the worst in the USA from a policy perspective, I'm mostly coming at this from a cultural one, where the concept of a CoC is already accepted, but how it is written and enforced is where the discussion lies (ie: not in a right wing space to begin with).
I am not advocating for doing business of any sort in the USA currently, I'm trying to puncture the white liberal myth that Europe/Canada/etc are 'safe' for everyone.
Iris@reflex @pojntfx Well, I'm a Polish trans woman, and I've spent a fair amount of time in Poland (though it's not where I currently live). I'll allow that the bigotry is bad, but a lot is counterbalanced by the fact that the people in Poland who'll fight for you know what's at stake and won't try and pretend that things are fine, which the anglosphere has massive issues with. Supporters in Europe will actually have your back.
@iris_meredith @pojntfx No idea, I won't deny your experience but mostly I'm lending my voice, which is aimed at other cis white people, due to the experiences PoC, LGBTQ and others have explained to me. And quite frankly, I've seen it as well, Portugal is viewed as very LGBTQ friendly, especially Lisbon, but when a presumably straight white guy like me ends up on the topic the tone changes as they often assume I agree with them so they can speak their real thoughts.
@iris_meredith @pojntfx My sister and her wife live in Poland, they have also seen the bigotry against LGBTQ there although they said it's softened since the last election.
I've been told horrible things by 'leftist' Portuguse people here, usually against Brazillians, various gypsies/travelers and former colonies by virtually everyone, and virtually every European I meet will explain how their country was the "good colonists" who simply weren't appreciated unlike the bad colonizers.
@iris_meredith @pojntfx The difference I see between the USA and Europe is that in the EU the bigotry is less overt, covered up by politeness and sophistication, but if you dare scratch the surface it's rarely much better than you get from the bigots in the USA or Canada.
Daniël Franke 
@reflex @pojntfx As someone who lives in Germany, is from the Netherlands, was married to a Canadian for over a decade and knows more about the USA than he ever wanted, I would say that this is also not correct, and really loses nuance. These things take different forms in different countries.
I would say on average Europe is more racist, just because there’s less ethnic diversity here, and isn’t given as much thought. To make it worse, media has convinced the average European that racism looks like how it does in the states, which it doesn’t, leaving them ignorant of the flavours of racism we do have.
Sexism varies wildly per country, and I would say that most are a tad ahead of the USA, although there’s of course different variations that just don’t translate.
Trans rights, I think at least NL and DE allow people to change gender at will, but the uk is very regressive on this front.
And then there is class consciousness, where most of Europe actually has a left wing, compared to the USA,where the most left wing party is a centre right neoliberal party.
So while there are definitely problems, I find your claim a bit flippant.
@ainmosni @pojntfx I don't actually see a lot of difference in our views, honestly. You used a lot more words to say the same thing I've been saying in this thread. Like the USA, some areas of the EU are better than others and some are far worse.
I totally agree on class consciousness, I didn't touch on that in my comments but you are absolutely right on that, and yes the nature of how racism is expressed and it's origins differ substantially.
@ainmosni @pojntfx However, a friend of mine who was followed around the store by two staffers after saying she didn't need any assistance pointed out to me that it did not matter to her if the reasons and history were different, as a black woman getting followed around the store when she does not want help and while they are not following the white customers has the exact same impact on her.
Nuance is good for the academics, but on the ground it's simply irrelevant.
@ainmosni @pojntfx And that's before we get into the fact that the EU trying to differentiate itself from the USA is itself a misguided approach, the United States is literally a European colonial project, just as Australia, Canada, etc are British ones. The various nations of Europe pressured, exiled and pushed some of the worst elements of their societies to these stolen lands, kidnapped and sold some peoples to them, and now want to pretend the situation isn't partly their fault.
Kevin Karhan 
@pojntfx not to mention e.V. are specifically designed for non-commercial / non-profit purposes like that.
- They can still do business, but unlike #US #NonProfit which are just #taxation tricks they have to follow their bylaws as per their goals.
Plus they have transpatency towards full members, so a valid balamce between privacy and public access.
Jeff Fortin T. (風の庭園のNekohayo)@pojntfx How do you protect trademarks in the U.S. (and receive charitable donations in the U.S. under 501(c)3 status) without the organization being in the U.S.?
Also, are ongoing legal disputes just aired out 100% in the open in Germany? That would sound surprising to me in any jurisdiction 🤔