sotolf
James ChipThere should be a chapter in The Design of Everyday Things devoted to this dial.
Kommadieb 🌆
@jameschip pretty wild
kianryan ☑️🐙🏳️🌈@jameschip
Screaming.
Screaming.
Phil Thane ✅@pthane @Maker_of_Things original.
Alfred Chow - Maker of Things@jameschip
I'd also like to submit this timer knob on a new microwave I bought for my 91 year old Mum.
Pale grey on white that you can only see with the camera flash reflecting off it.
Also, my fix, a cardboard overlay, red pointer, and a wire pointer to remove the parallax errors when looking at a knob that deep with ageing eyes.
Edit for all the typos. (Why do I keep finding more typos!)
mike805@Maker_of_Things @jameschip My favorite design failure is on a heat gun. It has a slide switch labeled Off, Fan, Low, High.
Somewhere between Fan and Low is an unmarked position called Catch On Fire!
No joke. The design of the switch allows an in-between position that powers the heater but not the fan motor, and that will start a fire every time.
vxo
Richard Bairwell@Maker_of_Things @jameschip My "microwave life" greatly improved once I found out the "Start" button also functions as +30 seconds. No need for the fiddly dial now!
wink@Maker_of_Things parallax error is such a great description of what I am facing with the new washing machine if I don't put my face directly next to the knob, thank you. @jameschip
delta 
@Maker_of_Things @jameschip our fridge is similarly bad, the controls for it are a flat capacitive touch panel (yay) with absolutely zero tactile markings of any kind (no braille, no separating marks, nothing, just a flat touch panel) where the "buttons" are marked only by some text (no not even an icon or an outline, just text) which rather brilliantly they decided should be black letters on dark grey ...brushed stainless steel (so not only is it low contrast, its also got texture for that extra visual noise to figure out)
the fridge has a light in the ice dispenser area, but that light is entirely useless because you'll never find the tiny "button" to turn it on in the dark, with no tactile markings and text that is hard to read even in good lighting with good eyesight
it is the most thoughtlessly designed control panel that i've personally seen on any household appliance, at least its just a fridge so you don't really have to bother with it
the fridge has a light in the ice dispenser area, but that light is entirely useless because you'll never find the tiny "button" to turn it on in the dark, with no tactile markings and text that is hard to read even in good lighting with good eyesight
it is the most thoughtlessly designed control panel that i've personally seen on any household appliance, at least its just a fridge so you don't really have to bother with it
@Maker_of_Things @jameschip and as a bonus
it also has a water dispenser that is confusingly positioned, in a way that i'm pretty sure everyone i've seen try to use it for the first time has guessed wrong on where the water spout would be
they made it look like its just a big button to push with your hand. rather than something to push a cup/bottle against, and its almost like they purposefully tried to make the spout part as subtle as possible, so everyone the first time they encounter it assumes the water would come from below the button, but no it actually comes from above, and most people don't see the spout before they push it and find water pouring onto their hand and the floor
and as a bonus bonus, its one of those double door fridges, so there is sort of a middle support/seal thingy on the left door, and inside the fridge is 2 drawers one on each side, the left drawer will open with only the left door open, but the right drawer will collide with the left door and cannot be opened with only one of the doors open (and the part that collides is a little lip on the side of the drawer that doesn't really need to be there, the actual drawer part would fit fine if that wasn't there)
but at this point its pretty clear that none of the designers of this fridge actually used their own product
it also has a water dispenser that is confusingly positioned, in a way that i'm pretty sure everyone i've seen try to use it for the first time has guessed wrong on where the water spout would be
they made it look like its just a big button to push with your hand. rather than something to push a cup/bottle against, and its almost like they purposefully tried to make the spout part as subtle as possible, so everyone the first time they encounter it assumes the water would come from below the button, but no it actually comes from above, and most people don't see the spout before they push it and find water pouring onto their hand and the floor
and as a bonus bonus, its one of those double door fridges, so there is sort of a middle support/seal thingy on the left door, and inside the fridge is 2 drawers one on each side, the left drawer will open with only the left door open, but the right drawer will collide with the left door and cannot be opened with only one of the doors open (and the part that collides is a little lip on the side of the drawer that doesn't really need to be there, the actual drawer part would fit fine if that wasn't there)
but at this point its pretty clear that none of the designers of this fridge actually used their own product
@delta
I think there should be a law that designers must be made to install and use their products before they are considered saleable.
I had to install a ceiling light for a client that was a large square plate with spots on. The fitting to the ceiling bracket was screws in a 70mm deep recess above the square plate that was only 15mm from the ceiling. Couldn't see it, couldn't reach it.
mirabilos@delta @jameschip @Maker_of_Things oh you get those on induction cooking fields as well. Print/touch, textured background. No light problem other than the general one (the ceiling light won’t reach it if you’re standing at it to use it), but if your noodle water cooks over you can’t even turn down the heat or soft-poweroff without getting burnt fingers. Pulling the plug only works for the portable ones.
I lothe all of it and want my gas stove back, despite all the problems with that.
(We have a portable one, but also a Ceran thing which at least has knobs, but it doesn’t know the meaning of low heat.)
@mirabilos
Of yes, so much this!
When Dad got dementia and was at risk of turning the gas cooker on randomly, unlit, we got rid of it and decided on portable worktop cooking rings, as they had proper control knobs unike the built in electric hobs. I wired it into a fused outlet and hid the switch where Mum could find it, but Dad wouldn't know to look.
Fortunately he passed away soon after so part of the risk went with him.
@Maker_of_Things @jameschip love the thought you put into improving the design!
@mirabilos
Thank you.
It was necessary, but also so unnecessary!
I don't know how my parents would have coped with it otherwise.
Jonas
Anke@jameschip I'd hope the explanation is that the original dial broke, and the owner of the appliance replaced it with one they had lying around that happened to be the same size.
Because that is really obviously bad.
Because that is really obviously bad.
@Anke nope, this is how it came. All at once set to hight 0, low 6, and 0 2.5 at the same time.
Anna@jameschip aaaaargh
n3wjack@jameschip Oh yes. The WTF-knob.
liferstate@jameschip What...what does it...do?
cuan_knaggs@liferstate @jameschip yes it does
2xfo
Wilfried Klaebe@RnDanger Was there a "Do not" button next to it?
Curmudgeon@wonka @RnDanger @mensrea @liferstate @jameschip
"Do" button.
"Do not" button.
There is no "Try" button.
Gnomigut@wonka @RnDanger @mensrea @liferstate @jameschip there‘s light consoles that do have an „Oops“ Button. It undoes the last thing you did.
@theVedek That's more like "Un-do", not so much "Do not" 😁
@theVedek Yep. And there is no "try", like Yoda said.
@theVedek @wonka @mensrea @liferstate @jameschip
"Do not undo do, undo do not do."
Marcus Marcius Marcellus
Efexor Zolpidem 
@RnDanger @mensrea @liferstate @jameschip I think most Apple applications have at least a "done" button.
Helge Rausch@liferstate @jameschip Likely, anything but what you expect, in any given situation.
🇺🇦 haxadecimal@jameschip
I can't even.
I can't even.
Graham Knapp@jameschip designed by committee???
Bern@jameschip as an engineer, I can readily work out what that dial is saying, but holy crap did they not do *any* UX testing outside the engineering department?
Roberto von Archimboldi@Bern @jameschip can you explain it to the uninitiated please?
@RobertoArchimboldi @jameschip Sure. As I see it, the 'o' marking at the bottom is the set point, and the dial is currently set to ~2.3 or so. The tapering line and the high/low markings are to give you an idea of which direction to turn it to increase / decrease the setting, and are, IMHO, entirely superfluous and confusing, because for most people, 3 is higher than 2, so if you put the 3 next to the mark, it'll be a higher setting...
Actually, I take back my earlier comment. I don't think an engineer designed this dial... they'd run through the same thought process I just did above, and delete either the numbers on the dial or the tapering line markings. Probably the tapering line, because knowing what it's currently set on (which the numbers give you) is probably more important than just knowing which way to turn it to increase / decrease the setting.
@Bern @jameschip super thank you. I can see how it is meant to work now. Why would you build a variable switch (ie one that is not always on or off, perhaps it is called a tap) with a set point and not like most valves I know continuous from closed to open? It seems a much more fiddly way to make your switch
@RobertoArchimboldi @jameschip it's definitely confusing.
A bit like the power setting on my toaster. It goes from 1-6, but ~2.5 leaves the bread black on the outside (and we're not talking particularly dry bread here). Even really moist sourdough is nicely toasted at that point. I struggle to think of a use case for any setting over three...
@Bern it is confusing for sure
Urzl@Bern @RobertoArchimboldi @jameschip Bidet prompts the same questions from me.
3 gets the job done. 4 starts to get uncomfortable. The dial goes all the way to 10 in case Robocop comes over to use your bathroom.
@Bern Frozen Toast Hawaii sandwiches maybe?
ctrl-k x@Bern @RobertoArchimboldi @jameschip yup, my toaster oven has a fine line around 2.5 between "still bread" and "hopefully this smoking ruin wasn't your last bagel"
@Bern @RobertoArchimboldi actually this is set to low 6, which it maximum. The 0 at the bottom is just there. We dont know why. To turn it off you rotate the 0 on the dial anti clockwise towards low where it reaches the end of its travel at about the 1 o'clock point.
Nothing about this makes any sense.
@Bern @jameschip that is cursed and incomprehensible
Marco van Burgsteden 🍋@jameschip @Bern @RobertoArchimboldi
Marketing thought it would look cool to add all numbers and stickers and tapers etcetera. Makes it look fancy.
Lizard 🦎@NicoleTheLizard it turned out I was completely wrong. 😆
That dial is apparently set to the highest setting.
Basically, you can read it two ways to get a correct read:
- look at the number that is at the 1 o'clock point, right of the word 'Low', or
- only look at the position of the number zero on the dial, against the Low->High graduated scale
The 'o' marking at the bottom is pretty much irrelevant, and the two sets of markings are redundant, just confusing the issue.
For clarity, either replace all the numbers on the dial with a marking at the zero position, OR replace the graduated Low-High tapered line with a single marking at the 1 o'clock position (because apparently that's as far as the dial will turn)
Callisto 💫@jameschip looking at this feels like trying to comprehend an eldritch horror
Kilian Evang@jameschip Omg. Normal at first glance, utterly evil at second glance.
Vicente ⁂@jameschip how does that work? :0
NiColesStreetPothole@jameschip It should just have the word MORE and a giant arrow.
Colin B.@jameschip my wife has degrees in industrial design and design thinking. She referenced Don Norman heavily in her Master's thesis.
I'm scared to show her this.