CAVOKNew Refrigerators, Washing Machines, Furniture and Tires Will All Have to Last Longer, Europe Mandates
A welcome mandate, especially for electronics. However people are already throwing away so much perfectly fine furniture that I don‘t think it will help much in that regard. A lot of people want something new, not something that just works.
KualdirI specifically want new because I already know even the new won’t last long don’t even mind something someone has used for a few years already
Where are you living? Here people give away (emmaus for example) or sell it online, for cheap equals you don’t even need to throw it away, someone comes and picks it up for you.
Those appliances are so simple too, making them durable is very low cost. Good move EU.
huppakeeWhere I live you can easily give your stuff away or donate it to a charity shop, but it’s a tiny bit less effort to chuck it in the trash so there are people who do that. Not all of them, thank god, but you can come across decent stuff every one in a while. Do have to say people are more likely to dump cheap stuff than reliable stuff from known brands.
Yeah they buy new because the advertisements give you idea that new is cool, brainwashing one into consuming. We should ban ads
Disposable culture is a blight on society…
Well, for furniture, I totally agree with you and honestly: I don’t think there is eomething wrong with redesigning your living room every 10 years, especially when you move around.
I mainly want to be able to buy old washing machines, dish washers, TVs, because I don’t care about their appearance.
If the produced stuff last longer it wouldn’t mean there would be less competition on innovation, people would still have a reason to sell you their old appliances because they want certain new function. This law is against making stuff that can’t be repaired or breaks easily. Don’t think you’d buy a 2 year old tv if it doesn’t work, right.
If it’s quality furniture you can sell or donate it. If it’s recent Ikea or other cheap stuff, it won’t survive being disassembled, moved and reassembled. Ikea’s surfaces scratch so easily, even on desks. It’s ridiculous. That kind of fast furniture is terribly unsustainable. But I wouldn’t be bothered if you bought a new sofa every ten years and make someone else happy with a used sofa that will last another ten years in it’s new home.
pankuleczkaplThis is absolutely true and sad, though I get a lot of free electronics to dismantle by rummaging through trash. People have no appreciation of the value of “used” items that either work perfectly fine or have a minor issue that prevents them from working but is easily fixable, e.g. a broken cable (I have many working devices that were thrown away because the cable is severed, which I could easily fix). I think only proper education in this regard will improve things long term.
People have been conditioned to throw away perfectly good shit, now we are surprised they throw away shit. This policy is obviously not gonna fix the issue on its own, but as you said, it’s welcome.
I wonder how this translates to tires. Generally, softer rubber translates to more grip and faster wear, and other way around. Does this mean that the tires will be less grippy then?
Yes. Cue in all the EV eco bullshit tires used on EVs that skid around already in good conditions and are absolutely horrible in bad conditions. All for sake of efficiency.
Idk I had a Tesla M3 with stock tires and because of the center of gravity being so low the car had great grip even with fast sharp corners. Seems like you just hate EV’s for whatever reason and take it out whatever way you can
There are some pretty annoying EVs out there (example bmw i3). It was delightful to drive, but as soon as a single rain droplet fell from the sky, traction control has a lot of hard work
I did drive a VW id.4 but with how high and huge that thing is the handling was horrible. From all the EV’s I’ve been able to drive/sit in the only good ones were currently Tesla and Skoda.
It’s not an EV thing, it’s a carmaker (and car type) thing.
I very much believe EV’s are the future, I just think the EU EV’s have slacked a lot because they were so adamant at staying with fuel based engines and because of that a lot of people think EV’s are so much worse, while the good and decently affordable EV’s sadly come from countries we just don’t really like (US and China)
I only know one electric skoda (Enyaq, the citigo was a fleeting experiment). And the Enyaq is the exact same car as the ID.4 except the interior. Same battery, drive train suspensión, brakes, etc. Same for the Audi Q4. So it seems to me that your subjective feel is not very accurate.
Usually it helps for traction if car weighs 300 tons…
Also no, it’s not me hating on EVs, it’s because Car makers stick lowest rolling resistance tires to improve efficiency and lower rolling resistance also means they grip asphalt poorly.
Mandatory alignment checks?
Isn’t this already a thing in the yearly technical check?
Idk, I’m in the u.s. without any inspections whatsoever. There’s an app that works with newer ios devices that can check very accurately because of the finer tuned gyroscope. Hopefully an android variant comes soon. Then trucks, buses etc. can check every trip without a lot of hastle.
Wait what the fuck, you don’t have yearly technical inspections there? So people can drive whatever deathtraps without functional brakes or shit?
Yeah, it’s kinda bullshit when you see perfectly smooth tires on a grain truck, which also doesn’t require a special license if driven by a farmer or their family. I think you could be 16 or 18 and hop into a truck to haul 20 tons of grain with a car license.
It depends on the State.
A_norny_mousseDid not happen here in Finland just a few days ago.
The way I see it, they check mostly for stuff that could result in unsafe breakage/conditions, endangering yourself and others.
Of course misaligned front tires aren’t good even if you ignore tire wear, but they don’t make your car a death trap.
Not saying I’m agreeing with this, just my observation. Some of the things that are important to them, while others aren’t even checked, the logic eludes me.
Maybe. Tire rubber compounds continue to improve, along with construction and tread design. So newer tires might be just as grippy and more efficient. Or way less grippy and way more efficient. Or way grippier and just as efficient. It just depends on the tradeoffs the manufacturer decided to make.
I believe that tires will go a long way in terms of wear and longevity (as we’ve seen in the past 100 years), but not sure if more grip and less rolling resistence (efficiency) is possible.
SalvoThe three biggest things that kill a tyre are;
- shitty roads
- aggressive driving
- heavy vehicles (like EVs and oversized SUVs)
That said, cheaper tyres are typically made of cheaper compounds that age poorly.
IndiBronyThat last point sticks with me.
I always used to get the cheapest, shittest tyres just because cost, but since I became a driving instructor a few years back I got into the mentality of thinking “I need decent tyres because I don’t want my learners to lose control of the car”
Normally I’d buy tyres once every 6-8 months after squeezing out every morsel of life from them, but my current Bridgestone tyres have been on for nearly a year now - doing driving instructor mileage on top of my usual - and they’re not showing any signs of needing replacing yet.
The fact is I’m actually saving money doing it this way, because whilst the tyres are more expensive, I’m replacing them much less often.
I’m going to try out Pirelli next because it sounds like they’ve started lining the inside of some of their tyres with that puncture repair stuff and padding them out with foam to significantly reduce road noise.
That’s weird. I’m changing tires every 2 to 3 years and so is the norm in Europe.
They did mention being a driving instructor. Driving (and teaching students to drive) all day every day is going to put a lot more wear on the tires than a typical driver.
They also mentioned getting good tires after they started doing that, not before
Yeah I put 30k+ miles on the car just doing instructing, then I often also drive when I go on holiday, putting at least a good 500-600 miles on the car if I go away on the weekend (which is often).
I’ve had dedicated works vehicles which I’ve put fewer miles on the clock 😂
Obligatory Pratchett:
The reason that the rich were so rich, Vimes reasoned, was because they managed to spend less money.
Take boots, for example. He earned thirty-eight dollars a month plus allowances. A really good pair of leather boots cost fifty dollars. But an affordable pair of boots, which were sort of OK for a season or two and then leaked like hell when the cardboard gave out, cost about ten dollars. Those were the kind of boots Vimes always bought, and wore until the soles were so thin that he could tell where he was in Ankh-Morpork on a foggy night by the feel of the cobbles.
But the thing was that good boots lasted for years and years. A man who could afford fifty dollars had a pair of boots that’d still be keeping his feet dry in ten years’ time, while the poor man who could only afford cheap boots would have spent a hundred dollars on boots in the same time and would still have wet feet.
This was the Captain Samuel Vimes ‘Boots’ theory of socioeconomic unfairness.
I’ve carried that with me for years. I always try to buy long-lasting quality items for this very reason.
Not to mention that, due to inflation, those ten dollar boots themselves will cost 20 to 30 dollars before long.
Under inflation is terrible for longevity, handling, and safety. You should maintain proper tire pressure.
So is over-inflation. Always inflate to the correct pressure as per the placard. If you are driving in unusual conditions,
My little Jimny weighs bugger-all but needs Light Truck tyres. On-road pressure is a very light 26 PSI. If I am driving through Sand, Mud or Snow I will deflate to an appropriate pressure and drive slowly. If I am driving over rocky terrain, I will also deflate to an appropriate pressure for better adhesion.
As soon as I hit the Tarmac again, I will reinflate back to 26. If I am carrying more weight or towing, I will inflate the rear tyres to 29.
shitty roads
Cars (as you said, some more, some less) themselves destroy roads
Not quite, something like 98% of road damage is caused by trucks. Damage increases exponentially with weight.
Passenger cars are getting heavier Light trucks (SUVs) are now being driven in lieu of compact station-wagons.
Vehicle classes are also getting larger and heavier. Subcompacts that used to weigh less than 1000kg are now about 1500kg and EV variants are over 2000kg!
I am talking about 40.000kg trucks. Anything below 3.500kg is basically harmless (in comparison).
It depends on what the roads were built for.
If they are built to handle 1500kg passenger cars, 3500kg behemoth SUVs and Pickups can really do some damage, especially at speed.
I don’t know of any road built for 1.500kg cars. Most are 40t, with some 12t and very few narrow and old ones with 3.5t (and usually have a 30 km/h limit).
Never buy cheap tires - they are your only contact with the road. You can have the best car in the world, and shitty tires will make it worthless.
There are videos on the subject, making the point of buying good tires, cause they will save your life.
PT Cruiser Humiliates BMW M3 – The Power Of Tires!
Digestive_BiscuitSame goes for wipers.
EVs are getting their own lines of tyres (supposedly) designed to handle the weight, torque and address range concerns.
It’s a good thing they think about this. With that said, the tires can wait. Let’s start with the low hanging fruit. It’s a crime that critical components in home appliances break so easily and are so hard to fix.
Or impossible to buy spares for, or when you can get the spare part it’s often so expensive with shipping that it’s almost worth buying a new appliance on offer with the warranty that comes with it.
Some stuff are just ridiculously tedious to service due to their design.
Asus laptops are notorious for this. I remember having to take apart everything including the mainboard just to replace the RAM module.
On a similar note, in car context, I’ve read about instances where one needed to take out the whole engine just to replace the spark plug. I think it was Mercedes A series, as well as some Wuling.
Spark plugs hit home. The back 4 in my Lexus are a real pain in the arse to get to. they’re iridium so they dont have to be done as regularly but when they do it’s a good few hours work even for a professional
To be honest anything on a modern engine is impossible, I had headlights that needed part of the bumper and wheel arch removing, just to change a bulb
Exactly this. I recently had my clothes washer break. Spent days researching the problem, taking the thing apart, figuring out the cause was the spindle on the back of the drum having a crack and eventually breaking. I eventually found a replacement part which had a slightly different part number but research showed it should be compatible. $400 for the part. $130 shipping, plus tax came out to just shy of $600. 2 week lead time to get the part, and no certainty I’d be able to put it all back together. Professional appliance repair wouldn’t have made financial sense either, I called around.
I ended up ordering a new one for $800 all in, saving many headaches. Had it two days later and was able to catch up on laundry.
Fundamentally, you’re never going to be able to compete with the economies of scale of an assembly line with the same people putting together all the parts that were shipped to the same place. If the repairman has to keep an inventory of hundreds of parts for dozens of models, and drive around to where he only has time to diagnose and fix 2 appliances per day, while the factory worker can install a part for 100 appliances per day, there will always be a gap between the price of replacement versus the price of repair.
Did you research spare part availability / reparability scores when buying the new one?
I always start with that when buying major items. Some brands are more consumer friendly than others. I was still able to buy replacement parts for my 2005 fridge and dishwasher in 2019 and 2023 for 13 and 100 euros respectively (the 100 euro was a heat exchanger one of the biggest pieces of the machine). With 6 Euro shipping costs, 2 day delivery. And a bunch of YouTube videos to do the repair.
In 2024 we equipped a whole new house with the same brand, voting with our wallets.
Yes, to the best of my ability and available resources. It is a newer model, so currently spare parts seemed to be abundant vs the 12 or so year old previous model.
Nice work on the cheap repairs! Which brand, if I may ask?
Neff, but it’s exactly the same hardware as Bosch and Siemens (BSH).
We sold the apartment with the 20 year old devices still working perfectly.
Cool! Bosch is going to be my next set of appliances after I sell my current place, and my new place needs new ones.
Tiny plastic part that holds the handle to my fridge broke. Need a new 50 cent plastic part.
GE wants $200 to replace all 3 metal handle assemblies. Can’t just get the plastic part, it comes in a bundle with all 3 metal handles. Which would immediately go in the garbage.
If we can’t get them on the “intentionally gouging customers” angle, we can surely get them on the “creating excess waste” angle.
Find someone with a 3D printer?
That feels like a move on the slippery slope from a market economy to a planning economy.
The objective is honorable, but better value should come from customer choices, not from regulations.
Instead of making those rules and establishing institutions that enforce them, the EU should create infrastructure that allows consumers to compare products objectively. Add the opportunity to finance more expensive but also more durable products easily and there is no need to suffocate everything in regulations.