Lea Verou
George Takei 
๐ณ๏ธโ๐๐๐ฝNever forget.
TheBison@georgetakei Yes, and that's the democratic party who chose genocide instead of defending trump and preventing all of this. So they're not "good people". They're horrible genocidal maniacs who knew and didn't care abt what trump would do. No votes for evil, no matter where they are.
Maier Amsden@TheBison @georgetakei If you live in a swing state & refused to vote for Kamala, you own a little piece of Trumpism & its notably worse treatment of Palestinians & so many other non-rich, non-white people. You own Obrego Garcia, Khalil, Ozturk... Yes, Democrats (who own this too) are shitty genocide-lite elitists, but Trump is gleeful about hurting brown people & Muslims. He's anxious to chop up the spoils of genocide. He's dismantling what little we had left of representative government.
@MaierAmsden @georgetakei The "lesser of two evils" is still factually evil. You are on the side of evil, just like maga. Ya'll have NO moral ground to stand on with ur "high horse". Ya'll sold ur souls to murder children, for genocide, police brutality, price gouging, an unjust "justice" system, corruption, etc. Ur no different from maga. Ya'll ant evil to harm the innocent while ya'll stay comfortable in ur imaginations. Accept this literal fact or have the self respect and kp ur mouth shut. I'm tired of ya'll maga-mind teletubbies smdh
@TheBison @georgetakei You chose *worse* evil. Why you think that makes you better is a mystery to me. How you think that makes anything better for anyone is a mystery to me. Be sure to let Khalil and Ozturk know that their suffering (and the suffering of countless others) is the price paid for your idiotic, pointless vanity.
@MaierAmsden @georgetakei Lying just shows u know ur wrong. I chose no evil. That's how u don't forsake ur soul. Ya'll chose genocide, police brutality, corruption, etc. Face the reality that ya'll aren't much better than maga. Then hopefully work on bettering urself
@TheBison @georgetakei Who's "y'all?" People who don't make stupid harmful decisions that sell out the country to the worst autocrats?
@MaierAmsden @georgetakei Literally urself. Yet just like maga, u don't care
@TheBison @georgetakei Your mind-reading abilities are about as sound as your logic.
@MaierAmsden @georgetakei U have a maga mindset. That's just how it is. Don't like it? Then start thinking honestly
cqd_sosTo be fair, Germans do have somewhat of an excuse.
A lost war, Treaty of Versailles and what it entailed. Hyperinflation, massive destruction of wealth. Great Depression, which made the US demand back all the loans Germany heavily depended on. You can, in hindsight, somehow understand how, everything taken together, and happening within 15 years, could destabilize a country and provide radicals with a shot.
In case you don't know what hyperinflation means, you pay three bucks for a loaf of bread today. 300 bucks next month. 300 thousand six months later. Meaning all your savings, in cash or in a bank account, are gone.
James Cameroun@cqd_sos @georgetakei This is not how Hitler came to power. I mean the nazis were not the only ones adressing these issues and when they actually took over most of those were a thing of the past, so much so that these guys had to go beyond merely taking advantage of what the situation was back then if they were to take the power. While this whole Versailles syndrome helps understand why they had their followers, it doesn't explain what came after.
A thing of the past? You do recall when the Great Depression happened, don't you. That's what, in addition to everything else, provided the Nazis with a boost in 1933.
They still didn't get a majority. A deficiency in the system, which gave a half-dead, senile president the authority to appoint a chancellor, plus some clever maneuvering is what then sank the Weimarer Republik.
That, plus a pretext, the Reichstagsbrand, is what allowed Hitler to gain absolute power.
All very fast. Smooth. Democracy was gone within a blink of the eye.
Also, what a statement to make. Do you really believe a hyperinflation happening in the US, some 10 years ago, would have been forgotten already?
Oh, of course. Hyperinflation in 2015, which destroyed all my savings in the bank, in addition to making me eat shit for a year or two, because I couldn't afford any real food. No problem, long forgotten. Now it's Great Depression, the sun is shining again.
Dave Mangot@cqd_sos @ratel @georgetakei let me get this straight.
The person who said there was an excuse for gas chambers is saying "what a statement to make"?
Make it make sense.
calsnoboarder@cqd_sos @ratel @georgetakei Based on your comments on this thread... it seems you really appreciate the Nazis for climbing out of poverty by killing a few million people. That is admiration I am reading between the lines of your comments right?
@calsnoboarder @ratel @georgetakei
Wrong, young snoboarder.
@calsnoboarder @ratel @georgetakei
For starters, you have to differentiate between "the Nazis" as in all of Nazi Germany, and "the Nazis" as in the party that made Germany Nazi Germany. The party is what I've been talking about.
@calsnoboarder @ratel @georgetakei
And the question was, how could it have been that the party succeeded, eventually, after ten years of trying, and so easily? What were the reasons? Who didn't pay attention, and why?
@calsnoboarder @ratel @georgetakei
Maybe everyone was busy snoboarding while they performed their power grab? That could be an explanation.
@cqd_sos @calsnoboarder @georgetakei What I'm saying is it took much more than circumstances for the Nazis to take the power. It's not some mysterious political force born out of history. They liked to portray themselves as being beyond politics, yet they too had to make agreements and bargainings (not to mention dirty tricks) to make their way to power. They kind of considered that they were something else, something special. This was their understanding of things and it shouldn't be ours.
@ratel @calsnoboarder @georgetakei
It took a lot more indeed. It took a figure like Alfred Hugenberg, for example, owner of a media empire not unlike the one Murdoch commands. It took unrest, the constant (street) fighting between the Nazis and the communists.
Nazi, though, means national socialist, and that's what, first and foremost, everyone perceived to be their distinguishing feature. National, but also a working class party. The party of the forgotten man.
Sounds familiar?
@cqd_sos @calsnoboarder @georgetakei "working class party" is exactly what they made sure big business would not mistake them for. They used to tell different bullshit to different people. Which makes their apparent despise for petty politics all the more ridiculous, for they played this little game more than anyone else at the time.
@ratel @calsnoboarder @georgetakei
You mean, like Trump posturing as representative of the forgotten man while giving huge tax breaks to the upper 1%?
@cqd_sos @ratel @georgetakei I dunno... you sound like you admire their path to "supremacy." Like a bird watcher admiring a shrike for impaling mice on thorns.
@calsnoboarder @ratel @georgetakei
"Dunno" is a good start. I feel like we're getting somewhere.
@cqd_sos @ratel @georgetakei I think everyone else is getting somewhere... if the destination is understanding you are coming across as a fan of the Holocaust... that's really what I get out of most of your comments... sheer, unadulterated admiration.
@calsnoboarder @ratel @georgetakei
It saddens me to hear these kinds of words, coming from a cal snoboarder.
Allow me to ask you a question, dear, young snoboarder. Do you know what my profile image is?
@calsnoboarder @ratel @georgetakei
Hint: it's a drawing. But by whom?
@cqd_sos @ratel @georgetakei I don't think it matters. What matters is perception of your comments and that perception (at least for me and others in this thread that read your comments) is that you admire the nazis for killing 6+ million people to get over losing a war and being destitute.
@calsnoboarder @ratel @georgetakei
You didn't answer the question, young cal snoboarder.
Besides, sorry for saying so, but what your perception of my comments is doesn't trouble me at all.
@calsnoboarder @ratel @georgetakei
Many would say that, young cal snoboarder. At some point, sooner or later, you might want to wonder why.
@cqd_sos @ratel @georgetakei because they are also facists or christian nationalists? As the saying goes, if it sounds like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks (posts) like a duck, it's probably a duck.
@calsnoboarder @ratel @georgetakei
I'm surprised to see you ask me questions, young cal snoboarder, while you refuse to answer mine.
@calsnoboarder @ratel @georgetakei
You found out what my profile picture is, didn't you. But you prefer to ignore what you've learned, because it doesn't fit your dumb narrative.
@calsnoboarder @ratel @georgetakei
The amount of patronizing you're willing to take from me, without any protest, is pretty astounding, by the way. Another item you might want to address, when time permits.
@cqd_sos @ratel @georgetakei What would be the point in correcting your patronizing answers? Will it change anything? I didn't answer your question the way you wanted, but I did answer it... i wrote that I don't think it matters. I don't mind you patronizing me, calling me young, or making fun of my handle. For me to mind, I would have to give your opinion of me more weight than it deserves. That's it... Nothing mysterious about it.
Eka A.@cqd_sos @georgetakei
The oligarchs have become so greedy they destabilized the US. Now their puppet is trashing the economy so they can further inflame the people to cause a revolution.
The oligarchs have become so greedy they destabilized the US. Now their puppet is trashing the economy so they can further inflame the people to cause a revolution.
To be fair, the oligarchs may have provided him with money, but it wasn't they who voted him into office.
Alexand@Eka_FOOF_A @cqd_sos @georgetakei
We just have to make sure during the revolution to execute both the politicians and their wealthy contributors
๐๐ท๐ญ๐๐ฃ๐ฒ๐ฎ๐ญ๐๐ฎ ๐คHow do you keep the xtian nationalists from hijacking your revolution? They have most of the guns.
@Eka_FOOF_A @andytiedye @djg @georgetakei
What for? The guys with the guns, like privately organized militias, are typically on his side.
Shirley Eugest
Nick@cqd_sos @georgetakei Do you know what they call people who make excuses for the Holocaust?
Oliver Vanderb@Nickiquote @cqd_sos @georgetakei
I don't think he makes excuses about the holocaust. It's about the "Machtergreifung", the period which gave the Nazis power and that before. And they didn't came into power by saying "Hey, we like to kill millions of jews." The holocaust came later during the war.
At least you had the hyperinflation, the contract of versailles, the stab-in-the-back legend and the general nazi propaganda which led to the regime.
You can't have an excuse nowadays for similar
@Ollivdb @Nickiquote @georgetakei
People often make the mistake of conflating things, when judging them with the benefit of hindsight.
A point you hear often, for example, is that Hitler alluded to his plans for the Jews in his book already. So how was it possible that people didn't see it coming?
Well, hardly anyone took it seriously, at the time. Hitler was understood to be saying a lot of things.
Much like, now, people are surprised that Trump actually meant what he said about tariffs.
@Ollivdb @Nickiquote @georgetakei
Trump also talks about annexing Canada, and Greenland. Regularly. Supposed it actually happened someday, in a bloody fashion, the same question would arise. How was it possible that people didn't see it coming?
@Ollivdb @cqd_sos@mastodon.online @georgetakei did you miss the bit in the original post about gas chambers? There are historical factors contributing to fascism. There are no excuses.
Janie Karma S ๐ณ๏ธโ๐๐๐ฟ"To be fair,"
There is ALWAYS an apologist like you trying to be the devils advocate, go fuck yourself.
FUCK YOU.
Hayduke@georgetakei Iโm genuinely curious what do we think those people in 1937 should have done. Do we think if enough of them stuck their necks out and got killed and imprisoned earlier that it would have stopped the rise of Nazi Germany? Iโm asking because Iโm having a hard time identifying productive ways of pushing back that donโt endanger myself and my family beyond what Iโve always done. I talk to people about issues like totalitarianism, I canvas, and I vote.
1937 it was long over already. The Nazis had a firm grip on the country, all opposition had been crushed , either killed or spending their few remaining days in camps of no return.
When you want to push back, push back early, as hard as you can. At the first sign of trouble. The window of time is brief.
@medley56 @georgetakei
It didn't start in 1937.
When Kaiser Wilhelm II abdicated in 1918, it left a void. Some people wanted a democracy, some socialism, some authoritarianism, some wanted a new royalty. Many parties arose scrabbling for power.
The cost of WWI was high, then came the famine, then the hyperinflation.
Lots of people just wanted anything but what was happening.
Hitler didn't win the last free and fair election in 1932, getting less than 37% of votes. He was appointed after a few groups who won seats formed a coalition.
By 1933, the bands of NAZI stormtrooper thugs were already snatching people who voiced their opposition off the streets and beating or killing them, burning or seizing their businesses and homes.
acm@EugestShirley and yet, you didn't answer the question.
Which question?
I was responding in a thread in which some other comments have been deleted.
@EugestShirley ah, that's frustrating. I thought you were answering the question "โI'm genuinely curious what do we think those people in 1937 should have done." with a lesson about history that didn't address that.
@acm_redfox
Someone wrote a very thoughtful post, which is gone now.
I know TFG-P01135809 is a bully. The last thing anyone should do with a bully is give them power or accolades.
Yet some people have. People not necessarily voters, since first he needed the GOP nomination, the free news adulation, the campaign money, and the cheating.
Ultra-wealthy people buying the judges loyalty had started by the 1980s. I hope this whole mess is not too late to fix.