Otis VerhoeveApr 16
The Sleight Doctor 🃏
A reminder that France brought out the guillotines right about now.
Apr 1 at 4:12amWeb
Show threadThe Sleight Doctor 🃏Apr 1

This post was intended as food for thought, grist for the mill. The author was not advocating for literal guillotines and a rerun of the French Revolution! There are plenty of other ways we can challenge and even topple the oligarchy without dragging them out into the streets and murdering them.

As others have pointed out, it only takes around 3.5% of a population to overturn a government using civil disobedience and non-compliance.

Show threadAir Quotes ComedianApr 1

@ApostateEnglishman
*puts blade polishing rag back in pocket*

Of course, I knew that.

Show threadMy camera shoots fascistsApr 1

@ApostateEnglishman

*why not both dot gif*

Show threadskaphleApr 2
@ApostateEnglishman Right, but I think 3.5% are much harder now than in typical examples. When the goal is to topple a dictator and establish democracy, it is enough if 3.5% refuse orders to stay at home and demonstrate in the streets. When the goal is unclear but probably some kind of abolish representative democracy, capitalism, economic growth and the American nightmare, you'd need 3.5% to organize, agree on a common vision and refuse to work.
Show threadelectron tamer in training 🍂Apr 1

@ApostateEnglishman @aral

https://fr.crimethinc.com/2019/04/08/against-the-logic-of-the-guillotine-why-the-paris-commune-burned-the-guillotine-and-we-should-too

Against the Logic of the Guillotine

Fetishizing the guillotine is like fetishizing the state: it means celebrating an instrument of murder that will always be used chiefly against us.

CrimethInc.
Show threadThe Sleight Doctor 🃏Apr 1
@CyberSaloperie @aral Oh please. 😆
Show threadMisuse CaseApr 1
@ApostateEnglishman @CyberSaloperie @aral “Between June 1793 and the end of July 1794, 16,594 people were officially sentenced to death in France, including 2639 people in Paris. Of the formal death sentences passed under the Terror, only 8 percent were doled out to aristocrats and 6 percent to members of the clergy; the rest were divided between the middle class and the poor, with the vast majority of the victims coming from the lower classes.”
Show threadMisuse CaseApr 1
@ApostateEnglishman @CyberSaloperie @aral The guillotine was used to enact capital punishment in an autocratic state and like all forms of capital punishment it was used overwhelmingly on the poor.
Show threadAral BalkanApr 1
@CyberSaloperie @ApostateEnglishman I have that article pinned on my profile. It’s excellent. At the same time, facts are facts.
Show threadelectron tamer in training 🍂Apr 1
@aral ahah I didn’t saw it was pinned on your profile!
Yeah it’s certainly facts, but it was also exactly what the article was criticizing 🥲
(Also I got blocked by the OP)
Show threadThe Sleight Doctor 🃏Apr 1

@CyberSaloperie @aral I unblocked you. My apologies, that was rash. I was just being bombarded from all sides and it got a little overwhelming. 🤷‍♂️

I should probably have anticipated that some folks would take me literally! It's not as if I made it clear in the original post that I *wasn't* saying we should murder billionaires in the streets.

Show threadWoozle HypertwinApr 1

@aral @CyberSaloperie @ApostateEnglishman I always saw it as a symbol, not a literal intention. I don't think anyone thinks literally cutting off heads is the solution; if we could get far enough to apprehend the people who need to be removed from power, that would suffice.

I see it as more a reminder of how the current situation has been handled historically, a resetting of the Overton Window around discussions of extreme wealth disparity (which, of course, Important People want us to accept as perfectly fine and just How Things Are ).

Show threadelectron tamer in training 🍂Apr 1
@woozle maybe you should read the article, it's criticizing the symbolism too
Show threadWoozle HypertwinApr 1
@CyberSaloperie I skimmed it; will give it a more thorough read. ✅
Show threadWoozle HypertwinApr 1
@CyberSaloperie (Looking through the article again...) Which section is that in? It's a long article...
Show threadelectron tamer in training 🍂Apr 1
@woozle i don't remember a specific section, i think it was a large part of the article that was about that
sorry, i've read it some months ago and i have memory issues
Show threadWoozle HypertwinApr 1
@CyberSaloperie Mood! Hopefully I'll have time to read it in detail later today.
Show threadThe Sleight Doctor 🃏Apr 1

@woozle @aral @CyberSaloperie@woof.tech That's why I issued my "Oh please!" response, above.

I'm not literally advocating for capital punishment and a rerun of the French Revolution in the United States.

I'm just reminding people that extreme inequality has caused societal breakdown in other countries, and that we should be doing more to prevent it.

The guillotine is indeed a symbol. I would oppose the actual building of real guillotines and the murdering of American oligarchs in the streets!

Show threadWoozle HypertwinApr 1

@ApostateEnglishman @aral This is one of those things where I can really see both sides of it.

Like...

[point] I know I would never support capital punishment for anyone, no matter how horrible, and thus the guillotine to me is purely an abstract symbol of the ability of the masses to take down the powerful, no matter how powerful they get -- while in reality being very careful only to damage property, not lives.

But...

[counterpoint] ...a lot of people, especially people who are the most susceptible to influence by symbols and rhetoric, may not get that. We may have every intention of discarding the symbolism when it's no longer needed -- but they may see it as the real goal, an endorsement of brutal and lethal retaliation and rule-by-violence.

cc @CyberSaloperie

Show threadThe Sleight Doctor 🃏Apr 1

@woozle @aral @CyberSaloperie Yes, everything you said.

My "Oh please!" response was perhaps a little glib. Yours is far more apropos and I wish I'd written it myself!

Thank you.

Show threadThe Sleight Doctor 🃏Apr 1

@aral @CyberSaloperie It remains to be seen how many people they will "disappear" before the people decide to disappear them.

We're only three months in.

I'm absolutely not saying we *should* murder all the billionaires, only that history shows this extreme level of political, social and economic inequality will result in a backlash eventually. And those on the sidelines shouting, "No! Don't murder them!" may well also be killed.

Avoiding this state of affairs should be our priority.

Show threadPonygirlApr 1
@CyberSaloperie @ApostateEnglishman @aral I think it's more symbolism than actual intentions (exception-1/6 maniacs). Today we have click click boom. No guillotine required.
Show threadelectron tamer in training 🍂Apr 1
@Ponygirl the article is criticizing the symbolism aspect too
Show threadPonygirlApr 2
@CyberSaloperie This is definitely a test case for not reading the article. My bad. As I finally read it, I was reminded of "A Tale of Two Cities" where the word Patriot was bastardized and used to exclude citizens who didn't tow the line, and probably led said citizens to the guillotine. Thank you for your patience with my folly (and the lesson).
Show threadJamoteuszApr 1
@ApostateEnglishman Did you just read Peter Turchin? hahha - I was reading yesterday. The time has come... huh... i'm not rich!
Show threadHavyhh2Apr 1
@ApostateEnglishman ....would it be appropriate to yell "FORE" if, you know.....deployed....?
Show threadTara Bethany AllardApr 1
@ApostateEnglishman i think i hear them starting to humm À la volonté du peuple
Show threadVegardApr 1
@ApostateEnglishman don't think 50% of the French population at the time was MAGA though
Show threadCouscousApr 1
@vegard
plus we cut heads to put the almighty bourgeoisie in place... which was kinda very wrong (and brought us back to the same inequality state today)
French too have to do their homework, again
@ApostateEnglishman
Show threadDean F.Apr 1
@ApostateEnglishman They want 1939 Germany, but let's give them 1789 France!
Show threadConnor CadellinApr 1
@ApostateEnglishman so I did some digging on the numbers here. The Gini coefficient for France was 0.59 ish. Some error bars there because it was centuries ago, but almost every country on earth has much greater wealth inequality than revolutionary France today. USA is currently 25th place at 0.85, behind many developing countries but substantially ahead of the rest of the west.
Show threadConnor CadellinApr 1
@ApostateEnglishman for anyone not familiar, Gini coefficient is a measure of inequality. 0 is total communism, 1 is where a single person has all the wealth. The only countries I can see below revolutionary France level inequality are Belgium, Qatar and Slovakia, going by 2021 figures.
Show threadBlippy the Wonder Slug 🇩🇪Apr 1
@ApostateEnglishman
#CompostTheRich
Show threadMlékař Dan 🦣Apr 1
@ApostateEnglishman Pls don't forget to implement metric calendar once the pesky imperialists are taken care of...
Show threadPeter BrownApr 1
@ApostateEnglishman Scotland stopped using The Maiden in 1716 as we decided that hanging was more humane. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maiden_(guillotine)
Maiden (guillotine) - Wikipedia

Show threadThe Dude™Apr 1

@ApostateEnglishman I made this a couple of years ago, as I was fed up with capitalism and it's bullshit. So to fight capitalism i made a website to sell anticapitalist merch on my capitalist website. The irony is palpable.

https://thedudeabides.shop/products/wont-you-think-of-the-ceos-anti-capitalism-bubble-free-stickers?_pos=2&_psq=Ceo&_ss=e&_v=1.0

Won't You Think Of The CEOs Anti-capitalism Bubble-free stickers

Show threadVondeboefApr 1
@ApostateEnglishman
Show thread👁Pooka🫣Boo 🫵Apr 1
@ApostateEnglishman
Show threadRobin BartonApr 1
@ApostateEnglishman With great inequality comes great social volatility and extremism. The Gini coefficient strikes again
Show threadacmApr 1
@ApostateEnglishman yeah, that panned out great...
Show threadWombatApr 1
@ApostateEnglishman
This time not the Liberty Statue but the Guillotine as gift to the US people.