Mastodawn

looking to flee the red states below you

https://lemm.ee/post/60011598

looking to flee the red states below you - lemm.ee

I’m looking over my options in fleeing for safety as things get worse down here. I am considering joining friends in Oregon but that might not safe enough. I’m gay, atheist, have a college degree (not in anything useful, however), and am everything the nazi’s down here hate. I need to get out. I know you guys are justifiably pissed at us Americans right now, but if I were to try and move to Canada (and I have no idea how I could possibly do such a thing in time) would I be welcomed there? Would I be safe? Or would I be seen as an aggressor or threat of some sort? I need to get out of here but if it means going somewhere everyone will hate me I might not be any better off.

floofloof Mar 31, 2025

I don’t think Canadians are generally hostile to Americans unless they prove themselves to be asshole Americans. Lots of Canadians have American friends and would regularly travel over the border until a couple of months ago. And I think most Canadians can see what’s going on in the USA and understand that some people may need to flee.

However, immigration to Canada isn’t automatically allowed so it’s worth doing a bit of research and planning. Here are some government web pages that may help:

ircc.canada.ca/explore-programs/index.asp

www.canada.ca/en/…/immigrate-canada.html

Explore immigration programs to live, work, or study in Canada

Answer a few questions to see different ways you might be able to come to Canada

cic.gc.ca

muusemuuse Mar 31, 2025

I think I might fall into the refugee category. I feel ridiculous saying that as there are others who are far worse off than I am though.

floofloof Mar 31, 2025

It’s not ridiculous.

merc Mar 31, 2025

Americans are not going to be able to claim refugee status in Canada, at least not until things get a lot worse there. And, if it does happen, it’s not going to be people who can “pass” as a non-threatened group.

muusemuuse Mar 31, 2025

That’s the problem. We can all see whats coming, but it’s happening so fast that it will be too late. If I put in for asylum, I’ll be dead in the oven before anyone can even process the paperwork. If I just cross the border and try to wait things out there, I’ll have no way to feed or house myself, I’ll have no access to medications. And if things go really bad and this spreads to canada, they may just send be back to the US and I’ll end up in an oven anyway.

abff08f4813c Mar 31, 2025

I have a little bit of good news for you, and lots of bad. The good news is that as soon as someone becomes an asylum or refugee claimant in Canada, they can become eligible for IFHP which covers prescription drugs, see https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/refugees/help-within-canada/health-care/interim-federal-health-program/coverage-summary.html

(See also a recent example of an American citizen who got IFHP after applying for aslyum at the Candian-US border, https://www.tiktok.com/@katie_katie2113/photo/7478861387322625322 )

And now the bad:

If the refugee claim fails, it's very tough to get into Canada afterwards. See https://vancouverimmigrationblog.com/is-it-possible-to-go-from-a-failed-refugee-claimant-to-an-economic-immigrant/ and https://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/threads/trv-for-previously-refused-refugee-claimant.123089/#post-2004890

If you did get approved for asylum or as a refugee, then you need to be careful never to return to the US or use or renew your US passport (or similar like passport card I guess), at least not until you've taken the oath and become a Canadian citizen.

If you do either, you risk losing it all and getting deported back to the US: https://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/threads/refugee-status-cessation-and-prs-applying-for-citizenship.333455/

Finally, I've been assuming that you're a US citizen. If you are not - most folks who make a refugee or asylum claim at the US-Canada border are denied because of the Safe Third Country Agreement (STCA) between Canada and the US, and so will usually be summarily returned to the US. (Somehow US citizens don't fall under this agreement.) So don't try this if you're not a US citizen, unless you're able to consult with a lawyer first.

So if you have any other way to get to Canada (you qualify for PR / Express Entry directly somehow and have enough points to get in - possibly because you are fluent in both French & English and have a masters; or you know someone who can get you a job offer that qualifies for a work permit under NAFTA; or you have enough funds to apply as an international student; or you are under 35 years and can qualify for a working holiday visa) - try that first. The consequences of failure there are less severe.

Interim Federal Health Program: What is covered - Canada.ca

Interim Federal Health Program: What is covered

muusemuuse Mar 31, 2025

I’m almost 40, only speak English, only have my bachelors. :(

abff08f4813c Mar 31, 2025

Seems like the NAFTA option is still open to you if you're a US citizen, or maybe you can get your masters in Canada if you can scrounge up the funds?

thanksforallthefish Mar 31, 2025

Move to the bluest city & state you can get a job in. Then hunker down and either save hard or start studying something that will allow you to emigrate (medical&IT security are always on the list), or something that can be done fully remotely. You’re a lot safer from a camp in a place where there are 100s of thousands of minorities. Not safe forever but it buys you time.

If you can get a job that can be done remotely you can get out to asia or south america asap.

BaroqueInMind Mar 31, 2025

Run away from your problems and dont bother try anything to fix it, the problems won’t surely follow you anywhere.

muusemuuse Mar 31, 2025

There isn’t a non-violent solution to fascism. I am one unarmed man in Ohio. I can’t do anything about the nazis. I voted against them. I’ve signed petitions. I’ve done all the things a functioning society has available but they don’t work when your opponent isn’t playing the same game by the same rules. Unless these guys start dropping like flies things wont change. This thing has its own momentum now. I don’t have the ability to change that.

BaroqueInMind Mar 31, 2025

Canada’s far right party simply needs to convince a couple small cities to get into power, FYI. That’s how close they are to gaining momentum.

merc Mar 31, 2025

I voted against them. I’ve signed petitions. I’ve done all the things a functioning society has available

Wow, you did both things?!

xtr0n Mar 31, 2025

Ohio either is or has recently been a swing state. The rise of fascism is terrifying but people in Ohio should have plenty of options for improving the situation and fighting back. And in even the most conservative red states, many of cities are blue. Your best bet may be to move to a city in Ohio. If that’s too expensive, then I have some bad news for you about Oregon (and probably much of Canada). Rural Oregon can be pretty conservative and racist AF. Cool cities in Oregon aren’t cheap relative to Ohio suburbs and exurbs. Living in a fun neighborhood in Cleveland or Columbus, joining some Democratic or Leftist political organizations and taking more direct action with like minded people may help with the feelings of hopelessness and may actually have a positive impact.

But free advice from a random on the internet is worth what you pay for it 🤷. It’s easy for me to make suggestions from my left leaning coastal city. Ultimately you have to decide how to best protect yourself mentally and physically.

muusemuuse Mar 31, 2025

The costs are higher but so is the average pay so it’s bad but not as bad as it seems. As for Ohio, this state is heavily gerrymandered and has been for years. The republicans regularly ignore the courts and their constituents. There is no accountability here.

Zorsith Mar 31, 2025

Ohio had nazis parading around in Columbus before the election. Literal, swastica flag waving, nazis.

Dayton survives almost solely due WPAFB and military contractors as far as i can tell, and with that comes a heavy republican presence and nationalism from retirees (and their family) who never left the area after getting out.

Much of the rest of ohio is either agriculture or former industry that hasnt quite fully died yet.

It hasn’t been a true swing state in quite some time.

floofloof Mar 31, 2025

The USA is going down a route similar to Germany in the 1930s. Would it be appropriate to preach what you just said to Jews and LGBTQ+ people trying to leave Nazi Germany?

BaroqueInMind Mar 31, 2025

No you are correct, vulnerable people need to flee to allow violent people to handle their business.

Madzielle Mar 31, 2025

My great-great grandparents fled Europe during WW1 when they were teens.

Did they run away too?

BaroqueInMind Mar 31, 2025

I’m very happy they fled and stayed alive to help create you, because you’re an amazing person, but I’m sorry the word “fled” literally means to run away. So yes, they did.

pleasegoaway Mar 31, 2025

Please go away.

Plenty of Jews and minorities fled nazi germany, and as a result have families alive today.

BaroqueInMind Mar 31, 2025

Fair point. I will slink away back to my sewage pit, apologies.

selkiesidhe Mar 31, 2025

I’m in Oregon. Applying and being accepted to be Canadian will take a long time, my friend. You are welcome in Oregon in the meantime. We are a bastion at the moment but just like the rest of the decent states, we are going to have our rights eroded by the dick-tator and muskrat.

Now if only Canada would offer to take the PNW off the orange cancer’s hands. Pretend like your doing him a favor lol

arotrios Mar 31, 2025

You’ll need money to flee, at least $10k on hand, likely more, to start the process for Canadian citizenship.

It will be easier to get to a blue state than it will across the border. Right now, all you need is transportation and considerably less seed money. It’s likely smarter to relocate to a blue state while you work out your international travel.

Since you’re in Ohio, the closest metro that will likely protect you is Chicago. That’s a good place to start if you’re looking to go further north.

If you can make it to the west coast, Oregon is likely the cheapest place to start, but be aware that eastern Oregon has its fair share of maga. Do not travel through or visit Idaho on your way (especially if you’re a person of color), and avoid Utah if at all possible. CO to NM to AZ is pretty safe if you’re looking to take the southern route to CA. You’ll probably be ok getting through Indiana as long as you keep to the freeway and don’t stop.

muusemuuse Mar 31, 2025

I drive a chevy bolt EV. While it has fast charge capability, it’s still a cheap EV and that fast charge still takes about an hour. Going through hostile territory isnt likely safe in my little hippymobile since I will be vulnerable at charging stations. I’ll probably have to rent a uhaul and tow it, making this trip more expensive.

arotrios Mar 31, 2025

Hmm… the EV part is rough. You might be better off selling it and getting a hybrid for the trip (Civic hybrids run like a top imho - my 2006 has 240k and hasn’t had an issue yet). Charging infrastructure in the west isn’t great. You also have the option of storing more fuel on board if you don’t want to stop in hostile territory. You might even make money on the deal.

muusemuuse Mar 31, 2025

It’s only halfway paid off but it worth more than I paid so I’m keeping it. A uhaul is probably in the cards anyway.

rxbudian Mar 31, 2025

I think, in general, people who buy EV are the ones a bit more concerned about environment, which lean to the left and a bit more tolerant. So you probably can charge up your car on exclusively EV charging locations

muusemuuse Apr 1, 2025

But I’ll have a target on my back and be tethered to those locations.

rxbudian Apr 1, 2025

There are Youtube videos you can search on ‘how not to draw attention’ or ‘becoming a gray man’
If no one notice you then you won’t be bothered.
Most of the time, you’ll run into people who are busy with their own problems and won’t put an effort to keep following you or harass you unless you give them a reason to.

Mushroom Mar 31, 2025

Try and apply as a refugee.

muusemuuse Mar 31, 2025

My fear is that will take more time than I have.

amino Mar 31, 2025

you can’t apply unless you have undeniable proof of having been attacked by the state. it’s not as easy as the media says

potate Mar 31, 2025

I mean, I’d give you a hug, take you to my local pub which just so happens to be queer owned and does fundraising for amazing causes and introduce you to my friends and community. Hell, I have a spare bedroom if you want a place to crash while you get set up.

You aren’t your government any more than the turds running my province (Alberta) are me. You’ll most likely be met with sympathy for the challenges you face in making such a big move and admiration for having the conviction and courage to do so.

Like any country, there’ll be jerks, but as a rule of thumb, we’re pretty friendly.

Heck, if you want a vacation, shoot me a message and come visit and use that spare room I mentioned. Do you hike or bike? I’m in Calgary which is super close to epic mountain fun and incredible scenery. We’ve also got three cats who demand attention, and a guide-dog in training who is a goofy/genius puppy, so there’s lots of pet-therapy available too.

muusemuuse Mar 31, 2025

Oh god I miss pet therapy. My cat died last year. A snuggly little manx named Ada Lovelace. I still miss her terribly. I dont have any downtime or spare money right now and I don’t see that changing. A lot needs to go well in my life for me to be able to pull off this self-rescue, and I’m still in the planning stages but I appreciate the offer.

potate Mar 31, 2025

Completely understand and hugs. Pets’ lives are too short.

bitofarambler Mar 31, 2025

I suggest going to Southeast Asia instead. tickets are a couple hundred, everybody is really cool about genders and pretty much everything else there, everything is cheap, you can live indefinitely on tourist visas and if you need money you can always teach English.

muusemuuse Mar 31, 2025

I dont have any qualifications to teach.

bitofarambler Mar 31, 2025

don’t need them.

The school will provide the curriculum, training, you’ll get to shadow a teacher for a few days and you’ll have an assistant in class to wrangle the students, so all you have to do is speak English in a native accent for 20 minutes at a time.

you can also watch any number of YouTube videos to learn what teaching English is like, or you can choose from hundreds of other remote jobs.

as long as you’re making a few hundred a month, you can survive comfortably in Southeast Asia.

hostels are $100 a month, 200 a month for food is fine.

If you’re making 500 usd a month, you can get a private place for $250 or $300, and keep the same food budget.

Canadian_anarchist Apr 1, 2025

This is not entirely true. Malaysia and other countries have very conservative laws and social policies. Also, the English teaching industry is not what it was in the early 2000s. Most countries now have enough of their own English speaking population, and the.standards for foreign teachers have increased as a result. Even Vietnam requires a TESL diploma, which requires a degree to take. Any school that would employ someone illegally is not an employer to seek out as they (unsurprisingly) do illegal things in their workplace. Risk of deportation, the school being shut down, not getting paid, etc, is very high. Do not work illegally in another country.

bitofarambler Apr 1, 2025

“This is not entirely true.”

I’ll check.

“Malaysia…English teaching industry…Most countries…standards…VIetnam requires…employ illegally…risk…very high”

yea, solid disclaimer, most of that looks less than entirely true. Honestly, a lot of that is barely half true.

real quick: ESL is still booming, pay rates are higher than ever, the requirements are about the same as they were 15 years ago; native english fluency, college degree or TEFL certificate sometimes required based on the position and location.

Most countries certainly do not have enough of an english speaking population to have affected the ESL market, hence the thousands of currently available ESL postings and dozens of platforms for teaching online.

Vietnam does not require “TESL diplomas” to teach English.

Shanedino Mar 31, 2025

You kind of seem like you are spiraling based off of your additional comments, and may be overestimating the situation somewhat. You seem to be jumping from A to E and skipping through all the other, easier things you could do.

muusemuuse Apr 1, 2025

I’m aware I’m spiraling but there’s nothing I can do about it here. Getting mental health care is dangerous now as the Trump administration already said their end goal is to take psych patients and put them in work camps.

I lost access to health care when I lost my job a while back. When I got a new job when health coverage, Trump came to power and I now can’t risk using it. Even if it goes well, they medication could be taken away at any moment and I’ll have to go through a sudden withdrawl again. I’ll lose my job if that happens, which means I’ll be worse off than I am now.

I need to get myself in a situation where it is safe to care for myself.

DoubleDongle Apr 1, 2025

Get the mental health services for now. It’ll probably help you stay more stable for the difficult planning and decisions that may need to be done. I don’t think the labor camps will pop up suddenly enough to ambush many people. You aren’t as cornered as you feel right now. Figure out your exit plan, figure out your threshold for when to run, and try to live your life and/or resist in the meantime. There are lots of beautiful places to run if you’re willing to learn a new language. Spend some time reading about immigration laws so you’ll know what to do. It’s a little less scary when you know the plan in detail.

muusemuuse Apr 1, 2025

Getting mental health help risks shortening my available time to prepare. It creates another dependency that could make fleeing more difficult as well.

Shanedino Apr 1, 2025

I seriously can’t tell if you are just trolling people. You seem to be making excuse after excuse, creating problems for yourself, and are showing poor risk assessment.

muusemuuse Apr 1, 2025

I’m not sure what you asking me to do. I can tell you I’m not trolling but a troll could do that just as easily.

ninthant Mar 31, 2025

Canada will be mainly looking for skilled workers in the coming years. Being trained in healthcare or trades or engineering might give you a leg up, but it can’t be guaranteed

But overall Canada is reducing our overall immigration levels due to our previous government allowing many more immigrants than homes to house them.

Bubbaonthebeach Apr 1, 2025

Construction - building homes - may be something needed in Canada over the next few years if someone isn’t a doctor or nurse.

Victor Villas Apr 1, 2025

Yes, you will be welcomed by the people. Being welcomed by the job market is a whole story altogether, though one that you being American isn’t really getting in your way.

nadiaraven Apr 1, 2025

Coming from a trans person in Oregon who got my passport changed last year out of paranoia, I wonder if you’re overreacting. I think Oregon and other states like Washington, California, and northeastern states are friendly to lgbt folk, and it will be a hard fight if Trump wants to stop us from having rights. Portland is a metro area friendly to lgbt, and if you have no income, you can get on the Oregon health plan for free healthcare. I’m worried about you saying that you don’t want to get on meds because you are afraid of the withdrawals. Of course you should make the decision you think is best, but isn’t it better to have good mental health now rather than have bad MH in the hopes of avoiding your fear sometime in the future? Take care of yourself, remember that there is no certainty in life, there are risks in exposing yourself as mentally unhealthy, but there are also risks in not getting the help you need.

untorquer Apr 1, 2025

Also portland has a very strong leftist community so, if you want to find community, it’s got lots of opportunity to not be alone.

I think OHP requires residency, no? Is it 6mo?

nadiaraven Apr 1, 2025

No residency, you can get OHP immediately!

untorquer Apr 1, 2025

Oh cool! I thought they used to have one, been a while XD

muusemuuse Apr 1, 2025

The exposure is deliberate. If you keep secrets they can be used to blackmail or discredit you later. If everybody already knows something it’s more difficult to weaponize against you.

The illusion of a fine upstanding pretty perfect little muusemuuse is unimportant to me. I need to be safe, not to impress people.

Getting mental health help now works against me in multiple ways. First, it creates a dependency on a support structure that can’t travel. Therapists are in short supply and high demand. Psych medications can be taken away at any time and their sudden absence would effectively paralyze me. I’m actually at a rather strange advantage having finally adjusted to their absence. I’m miserable, I’m scared, but I haven’t lost touch with reality. I understand what’s real and what isn’t. I don’t hear voices or hallucinate. I don’t have violent tendencies. There’s just no compelling reason to put myself in greater danger by getting mental health help in red state USA in 2025.

Making things public like this also limits me. I’m more likely to be guided toward a better outcome. The majority of people are still good. They still want to help eachother. Even on the Internet there’s enough good there to help me. And if I should deteriorate significantly further, this acts as a failsafe for that too. People won’t notice a gradual decline but something sudden will raise alarms.

My friends and family are incredibly worried about me but right now is that’s what I need.

nadiaraven Apr 1, 2025

Strength is in connections. It seems like you have some friends in Ohio. Rely on them while you’re there. It looks like from some of your posts that you are thinking of moving to Oregon. If you do, find a good community and get connected. Like I said, Oregon is less likely to fall to Trump than other states. I think OHP is less risky, and I would advise using the free healthcare and taking meds if they help you. Most meds can also be titrated down instead of quitting cold turkey. Plus have you researched grey market meds online? There aren’t enough therapists, it’s true, but at least here in Oregon, you can go to a county run mental health outpatient facility and get a therapist with maybe a month of waiting time. I know this because I am a therapist myself, or will be when I finish school.

muusemuuse Apr 1, 2025

The point behind the meds is I can’t always predict when I won’t be able to get them and I can keep going on and off psych meds. Medication treatment only makes sense for people in stable environments. I’m not in one.

My friends here are bummed by my being a downer lately to the point that some now avoid me. So I can’t rely on them being around either. I’m going to have to improve myself and survive however I can.

Tiefling IRL Apr 1, 2025

The path to fascism is lined with people telling others to stop overreacting

monarch Apr 1, 2025

I don’t get how people can still say that someone might be overreacting when we litterally sent an innocent man to a work camp and said “oops can’t get him back”

The Rubicon is miles behind us at this point. Either prepare for war or prepare to flee.

Flames5123 Apr 1, 2025

Washington and Oregon (in cities) will protect you as much as possible in the states. I believe they are the last bastions of hope in the states. We need people to stay and fight, but rest is important too, and they’re trying to make that impossible for people not in safe spaces right now so they give up hope and leave. Please stay and fight with us if you have it in you.