edvardSailfish os?
Sunshine (she/her)It’s a secure operating system that has an eye candy user interface. Thus I like the idea of buying a license to support the development though I wish the UI was open-sourced.
The project is being developed by a Finnish company.
MigratingApeAnd Sailfish OS by history of its development is a direct descendant of the Nokia N9 legacy! They say directly on the Jolla about page that they continue what Nokia left, and I’ve heard some of their developers were OG Nokia Meego devs.
Personally I would love to see it gaining ground as I would love Europe to have its own phone OS.
Ubuntu Touch is German and Postmarket OS is european. I’m not so sure about Mobian.
BigouI'm surprised to learn Ubuntu Touch is german, especialy since the main version of Ubuntu and their parent company (Canonical) is South-African.
cabbageUbuntu gave up on Ubuntu Touch, but being open source some Norwegian guy decided to continue developing it on his own, and some people joined him leading to the ubports foundation. Canonical let them continue to use the name Ubuntu Touch and there is some continued cooperation, but Ubuntu Touch is completely independent from Canonical these days.
UBports@cabbage Ubuntu is a community, the Ubuntu community of which we're part, hasn't given up on Ubuntu Touch. Canonical stopped working on it in 2017, but Canonical is not Ubuntu, it's part of Ubuntu (a very important part).
While Marius Gripsgard is a very important person withing our community, it wasn't a single person who continued developing on his own, it was a community of developers, translators, testers, community organizers, etc... It's not nice to ignore those contributions.
4. UBports incorporates Ubuntu in Ubuntu Touch, greatly benefiting from the work Canonical and the community does, we are grateful and happily welcome this, and the collaboration we have with some of Canonical teams, the larger Ubuntu community, and sometimes even with Debian as an upstream for Ubuntu. It's our desire that it be so and even more whenever possible.
5. UBports is part of the Ubuntu Community, and regularly participates in its activities.
@Bigou Ubuntu Touch is not German. Ubuntu Touch, has no nationality. We are a community, composed by people from all over the world.
The UBports Foundation was created in Germany, but the Foundation is there to support the community and take care of bureaucracy to make their work easier.
klu9Canonical Ltd. is a privately held computer software company based in London, England. It was founded and funded by South African entrepreneur Mark Shuttleworth to market commercial support and related services for Ubuntu and related projects. Canonical employs staff in more than 70 countries and maintains offices in London, Austin, Boston, Shanghai, Beijing, Taipei, Tokyo and the Isle of Man.
Venus_ZiegenfalleI’m switching to Lineage for the time being and my original plan was using graphene with my next phone but this could become a viable alternative.
alexcleacAFAIK, Sailfish OS has quite strong ties with russia. I love the approach and the choice of technology, and enjoyed it a lot (much more than the iOS/Android approach) — the platform is indeed magnificent and has quite a few great things about it. Although, I see relying on Sailfish OS to be quite a risky choice, given their close ties with russia and unknown status of their support of russian version of the OS.
They severed all ties with Russia several years ago, I think the company is now entirely Finnish.
Sailfish OS is developed by Jolla, who are a Finish company with offices in Finland (Tampere and Helsinki) and China (Hong Kong).
The Russians have forked Sailfish into Aurora OS, but that's a separate system. It started out as a cooperation, but Jolla cut all ties with Russia in 2021.
It seems they had Russian investors and took active means to get rid of them:
In 2024, to escape Russia's investors due to the Ukrainian war, the Jolla initial company filed for bankruptcy, continuing its activity under the JollyBoys name.
I would obviously not use Aurora OS, but do you have any information that would indicate that Jolla or Sailfish OS are compromised?
I do not as of now, although I am still very suspicious about the company, partly because of weird “no politics” response when team was asked to claim their stance on full-blown invasion. As a strong reason for it is that Jolla business with russia was being done after Crimea peninsula annexation, which brings even more suspicion to me.
Bottom line: I do not see this platform as being actively involved with warmongering state, but as one that directly supported an ability for it, and a potential risk.
More or less the entirety of western society failed in not sanctioning Russia profoundly in 2014, and we are now paying the cost. No doubt. But I wouldn't exaggerate Jolla's role - going through a bankruptcy to shake investors off seems to me to be dedication, even if it might be a bit late.
Yeah, I see your point, and it kind of makes sense to see bankruptcy as an attempt to start clean. I did not know about that, thanks for letting me know.
Still, my take is that Jolla’s products should be considered carefully, and history should be taken into account.
I think phone operating systems are incredibly sensitive software, and they should always be considered carefully.
Ironic as fuck then that I'm currently using stock Android. Oh well.
Yeah… I know the feeling :)
I ordered a refurbished phone compatible with Sailfish OS a couple days ago to give it a try, hoping to have it up and running by the end of the week. I’m happy to post a review here once I’ve given it a try, if anyone’s interested. Planning to keep it entirely free of Google/Meta apps, so I am expecting there to be some compromises compared to my current Android phone.
Definitely would love to hear your honest thoughts about it when you have tested it!
Since you were interested in hearing my experience with Sailfish OS, I’ve come back here to share my experience.
First off, installation was fairly straightforward. It required copy pasting some code into the command line, and that was about as advanced as it got. I got my phone up and running in about 20 minutes.
I found getting started with Sailfish VERY different than starting with a new Android or iPhone. The gestures and layout I think are quite nice, but definitely very different from what we are you used to on most modern smartphones. Apps cannot be kept on the home screen as far I’ve been able to figure out. Instead, they stay in the app drawer, and active apps are displayed kind of like open windows on a desktop. It is also very basic in comparison when you first start using it. Other than some basic productivity apps, there is nothing installed. To me it very much felt like using a smartphone from an earlier and simpler time, and I quite enjoyed that part. I had some trouble figuring out how to be able to install apps, but eventually was able to install apps from both the Jolla Store as well as Android apps.
In terms of using it as a daily driver, I think it could work. I’ve so far been able to install some of the apps I use on Android either through F-Droid or by downloading the APK files. I do have to point out, I was already heavily relying on more privacy friendly apps like Proton Mail, Bitwarden and NewPipe. You might have a harder time using more commercial apps and might have to resort to using the browser instead.
There’s also a bunch of Sailfish OS clients available that you can download as a .rpm file. I’ve found these easy enough to install as well, once I had a file manager installed.
So all in all, if you’re willing to do a bit more tinkering to get your device setup, and are willing to put up with a phone that might miss a few more modern features like a wallet, I think it could work. It is definitely more of a niche product, and it won’t be for everyone, but I don’t dislike it. I have not made up my mind yet whether I will go with Sailfish OS in the end, and am gonna try installing /e/ os on another old phone I have lying around before making up my mind. But I am definitely glad I gave it a try and I’m hoping more people will be willing to give it a chance.
Thank you so much for your insight! Definitely interesting to hear how it feels for new person. I have thoughts so that using the phone would feel very different from android/ios people are used to. But as you mentioned maybe not in bad way at all.
Have you experienced any hiccups or major bugs that have required deep debugging or booting the phone? What are your thoughts of the native browser? Have you been able to use maps like HereWeGo successfully?
I’ve not experienced any major bugs so far. I tried here we go maps, but could never got the actual map to load. Organic maps so far seems fine though. I wasn’t a fan of the standard browser myself, it felt sluggish. I got Fennec (a Firefox fork) from F-Droid instead and am very happy with it. DuckDuckGo also worked fine. Both are Android apps, they’re not native Sailfish OS. I have tried whisperfish, which is a native Signal client. That’s been working really well. What I found interesting about the native clients, is that they follow your device’s color scheme and font etc, they don’t have their own design the way Android/iOS apps usually do.
Thank you for the insight!
One thing I have been wondering is why to use Whisperfish if the android app support works great with signal android app? Is it faster or more reliable?
Late reply - I have been using SFOS as a daily driver for many years now, on a couple of Sony Xperia 10 III and before that an XA2 Ultra. Everything generally works, although I’ve had a few problems/niggles:
- I changed the ugly “defaultuser” username over to my name using some hackery
- Internet used to not always work with android apps (fixed)
- IPv6/DNS data leaks when using vpn/wireguard (fixed)
- When I plugged in iems/earbuds with a mic they would always have an annoying buzzing sound, I fixed it by setting up pacat to run as a systemd service (no idea why this worked). Funnily enough I’ve actually just reflashed SFOS today and this seems to be fixed.
- The keyboard on OSRS doesn’t work, which is probably an issue of not having play services/microg.
Apart from that it’s generally wonderful. The UI/native apps are miles nicer than Android or iOS, you really can’t beat Finnish UI design. It has a small but vibrant community of nerds who make apps for stuff (e.g. Whisperfish for signal or a native kdeconnect client too!) and most of the components are open source.
For native apps I use CHUM or the Harbour, they are generally more updated than the Jolla store and sometimes have better versions (e.g. file explorer with root).
For android I generally use f-droid and aurora store; I don’t use microg to save battery but you can if wanted/needed. Battery life is not as good as android but decent enough, it’ll last me a day of heavy use/a few of light use.
For me the selling points are you have a phone you can ssh into, way more freedom than android/ios for actually being able to tinker with it as it’s basically just a linux machine running a derivative of fedora, and the UI rocks. Plus I trust Jolla far more than a faceless corporation intent on harvesting all your data.
They did have some concerning things regarding Russian investment prior to the Ukrainian war but as far I am aware this has all been dealt with - they filed for bankruptcy then rebranded.
If you have any questions feel free to reply/pm :)
seems great for a os thats not very popular!
all in all, what would you rate it against android? every app works on adroid right, so its a bit weird to go from there haha.
I like it far more than android mainly for the UI. It’s pretty consistent whereas Android seems to change every version. You get very used to the swiping to hide apps/go back to desktop/close stuff etc and it feels pretty natural rather than having to click that button to show all windows like you usually do in android.
For what it’s worth I don’t generally have any problems with android apps on SFOS and their implementation is pretty solid - It’s basically using LXC (Linux containers) to run the Android apps. It’s also pretty seamless compared to something like Waydroid (Although I can’t comment, I haven’t tried that too much).
I wouldn’t really be able to give a 1/10 per se but I ditched android a while back and don’t think I’ll be returning, if Jolla goes tits up then I would most likely be looking at another Linux phone, maybe Pinephone or something running PostmarketOS.
I think it’s good to view it as Android is something very established with a colossal dev team/manpower whereas something like SFOS or any Linux phone is more of a work-in-progress/labour of love. For that though, I would say Jolla have done an exemplary job and development is still churning along :)