EU OS: A Fedora-based distro 'for the public sector'

https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/40338907

EU OS: A Fedora-based distro 'for the public sector' - Divisions by zero

It’s only a proof of concept at the moment and I don’t know if it will see mass adoption but it’s a step in the right direction to ending reliance on US-based Big Tech.

I wonder how much work is entailed in transforming Fedora in to a distro that meets some definition of the word “Sovereign” 🤔

Personally I wouldn’t want to make a project like this be dependent on the whims of a US defense contractor like RedHat/IBM, especially after what happened with CentOS.

But it’s a good starting point. Better than inventing everything from the scratch.
I didn’t know red hat was working for the US government. Can you tell me in what way?

At the same time, Red Hat released the first version of Red Hat Enterprise Linux, Red Hat Enterprise Linux 2.1. The Army deployed Red Hat’s operating system in its Blue Force Tracker system, which lived in jeeps and tanks on the battlefield. Major General Nicholas Justice, the man responsible for Blue Force Tracker, said later:

“When we rolled into Baghdad, we did it using open source.”1

To this day, the U.S. Army remains one of Red Hat’s largest customers by volume. Red Hat was recently made part of the Army’s Common Operating Environment, which is their enterprise standard.

web.archive.org/…/red-Hats-decade-of-collaboratio…

Thanks I’m gonna have a deeper look into this then😇

I didn’t know red hat was working for the US government. Can you tell me in what way?

tldr: www.redhat.com/en/solutions/public-sector/dod

see also: web.archive.org/…/israeli-defense-forces-case-stu…

Various documents in (what wikipedia now calls) the “2010s global surveillance disclosures” showed that many components of NSA (and other Five Eyes partners) infrastructure is run on RedHat Enterprise Linux.

According to a 2008 study by the Office of the Director of National Intelligence, private contractors make up 29% of the workforce in the United States Intelligence Community and cost the equivalent of 49% of their personnel budgets. RedHat is part of that industry.

It’s often illuminating to search a company’s job listings for words like “clearance”. There are currently only eight listings for that query at RedHat but sometimes they have many more. Here (archive) is a current one. Here is another one archived last year.

Here is the text, in case the archive site loses it

Consulting Architect, TS/SCI + Polygraph Clearance Required (Fort Meade) remote type Remote locations Remote US MD time type Full time posted on Posted 30+ Days Ago job requisition id R-038935 About The Job Red Hat’s Public Sector Consulting team is looking for a Consulting Architect with a solid background in Linux, container platforms, IT Automation, virtualization technologies and an active TS/SCI + Polygraph security clearance to join us remotely in Maryland. In this role, you will help Intelligence Community customers design and operate core infrastructure that can scale to the demands of the modern digital marketplace. You’ll work with customers in small teams to build, test, and iterate over innovative application prototypes attached to real business value. You’ll use a variety of modern application development practices, along with emerging technologies from open source communities to get it done. As a Consulting Architect, you will help us become the defining technology company of the 21st century built on open source principles. You’ll also help us to fulfill our vision by guiding the strategic success of our customers using Red Hat’s solutions by building the industry’s best team of open source developers and partnering with our customers to build the premium software systems of tomorrow. This position requires frequent on-site work at Fort Meade and an active TS/SCI + Polygraph security clearance. What You Will Do * Deliver successful discovery, analysis, and design workshops for teams of technical and non-technical backgrounds that shape the customer use cases and architecture design decisions * Scope delivery projects and guide customers through successful pilot and production deployments * Oversee the design, creation, and delivery of content that enables the broader Red Hat teams to sell (presales), service (consulting), and support our cloud solutions at scale * Work closely with product business, product engineering, consulting, technical support, and sales teams to ensure excellent customer experience with Red Hat’s offerings * Contribute to the development of repeatable methodologies and tools designed to scale Red Hat’s services capabilities, promote repeatable customer engagements, and lower delivery risk * Demonstrate expertise in cloud and DevOps communities by producing outstanding whitepapers and webinars, code contributions to relevant projects, and speeches at industry-leading conferences * Work with customers on the writing of business justifications if needed * Work with the open source community to engineer labs-based software solutions designed to further accelerate our customers’ success at Labs * Become a trusted adviser to our customers, helping them achieve business success in an ever-changing technology landscape What You Will Bring * Active Top Secret w/ SCI security clearance + Polygraph * Broad knowledge of Red Hat OpenShift, Red Hat Ansible Automation Platform, and Red Hat Enterprise Linux * Broad and deep technical experience with virtualization, container, and cloud technologies * Solid Linux system administration skills; Red Hat Certified Engineer (RHCE)-level Linux skills or better; certifications are a plus but not required * Experience with cloud technologies, especially Red Hat OpenStack Platform, Amazon Web Services (AWS), Microsoft Azure, and Google Compute Platform (GCP) * Extensive technical experience with virtualization, especially Red Hat Virtualization, VMware vSphere, Microsoft Hyper-V, and Citrix XenServer; VMware Certified Professional certification is a plus * Solid debugging, troubleshooting, and general problem-solving skills * Great customer service skills and desire to make users successful * Positive attitude, ability to work as part of a team, and excellent written and verbal communication skills * Deep understanding of working with DISA, FISMA, NIST, and STIG security guidelines and how to adhere to them * Experience working within the US Department of Defense (DoD) and US Intelligence Community (IC) * Ability to make on-site customer visits The following are considered a plus: * Practical experience with Red Hat Satellite or similar systems-management technologies * Experience with Red Hat Ansible Automation Platform or other IT automation and configuration management tools like Puppet or Chef * Experience with datacenter automation tools and processes * System administration or datacenter architecture experience * Windows system administration * Ruby, Python, or PowerShell programming experience * Ability to study and learn quickly and put new topics into practice * Passion for open source software #LI-REMOTE #LI-AL2 The salary range for this position is $138,350.00 - $228,310.00. Actual offer will be based on your qualifications. Pay Transparency Red Hat determines compensation based on several factors including but not limited to job location, experience, applicable skills and training, external market value, and internal pay equity. Annual salary is one component of Red Hat’s compensation package. This position may also be eligible for bonus, commission, and/or equity. For positions with Remote-US locations, the actual salary range for the position may differ based on location but will be commensurate with job duties and relevant work experience. About Red Hat Red Hat is the world’s leading provider of enterprise open source software solutions, using a community-powered approach to deliver high-performing Linux, cloud, container, and Kubernetes technologies. Spread across 40+ countries, our associates work flexibly across work environments, from in-office, to office-flex, to fully remote, depending on the requirements of their role. Red Hatters are encouraged to bring their best ideas, no matter their title or tenure. We’re a leader in open source because of our open and inclusive environment. We hire creative, passionate people ready to contribute their ideas, help solve complex problems, and make an impact. Benefits * Comprehensive medical, dental, and vision coverage * Flexible Spending Account - healthcare and dependent care * Health Savings Account - high deductible medical plan * Retirement 401(k) with employer match * Paid time off and holidays * Paid parental leave plans for all new parents * Leave benefits including disability, paid family medical leave, and paid military leave * Additional benefits including employee stock purchase plan, family planning reimbursement, tuition reimbursement, transportation expense account, employee assistance program, and more! Note: These benefits are only applicable to full time, permanent associates at Red Hat located in the United States. Diversity, Equity & Inclusion at Red Hat Red Hat’s culture is built on the open source principles of transparency, collaboration, and inclusion, where the best ideas can come from anywhere and anyone. When this is realized, it empowers people from diverse backgrounds, perspectives, and experiences to come together to share ideas, challenge the status quo, and drive innovation. Our aspiration is that everyone experiences this culture with equal opportunity and access, and that all voices are not only heard but also celebrated. We hope you will join our celebration, and we welcome and encourage applicants from all the beautiful dimensions of diversity that compose our global village. Equal Opportunity Policy (EEO) Red Hat is proud to be an equal opportunity workplace and an affirmative action employer. We review applications for employment without regard to their race, color, religion, sex, sexual orientation, gender identity, national origin, ancestry, citizenship, age, veteran status, genetic information, physical or mental disability, medical condition, marital status, or any other basis prohibited by law. Red Hat does not seek or accept unsolicited resumes or CVs from recruitment agencies. We are not responsible for, and will not pay, any fees, commissions, or any other payment related to unsolicited resumes or CVs except as required in a written contract between Red Hat and the recruitment agency or party requesting payment of a fee. Red Hat supports individuals with disabilities and provides reasonable accommodations to job applicants. If you need assistance completing our online job application, email [email protected]. General inquiries, such as those regarding the status of a job application, will not receive a reply.

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Thanks I’m gonna have a deeper look into this then😇
Why Fedora? They’re basically Red Hat in a trench coat. I’d go with a EU based distro like Suse.

Based on a US distro whose versions are supported for 1 year, and “built to the requirements for the EU public sector” (because the EU public sector has one coherent set of requirements and the dev knows them, even if he doesn’t list them out).

This is most probably good-intentioned and it is admirable how the dev sprung into action, but it’s naive at best.

If the EU were concerned about the US jurisdiction of Linux projects it could pick:

  • OpenSuSE (org based in Germany)
  • Mint (org based in Ireland)
  • Manjaro (org based in France/Germany, and based of Arch)
  • Ubuntu (org based in UK)

However if they didn’t care, then they could just use Fedora or other US based distros.

I think it would be a good idea for the EU to adopt linux officially, and maybe even have it’s own distro, but I’m not sure this Fedora base makes sense. Ironically this may also be breaching EU trademarks as it’s masquerading as an official project by calling itself EU OS.

I’d add:

  • Mageia (French)
  • Zorin OS (Ireland)
  • Ufficio Zero (Italy)

Last option but better for an easy migration: linuxfx.org

Fedora Origin: USA

No, thanks. 🙅

alternative POV: it’s entirely FOSS so there’s little control that can be exerted from its use. it’s also entirely free, so use is extracting value without providing anything in return. by its use, you’re taking resources to maintain, host, etc and providing nothing in return

similar reason to why i don’t use ecosia with an ad blocker: by blocking ads you’re using their resources without giving back and thus you’re taking resources away from the charity

This is true, but then why not base it off Guix (the GNU distro)? …I’m sure Fedora is full of binary blobs and not-so-free software.

If they needed it, they could still add extra software and blobs to Guix, sourced by the EU… and I think doing that would allow it to carve itself a niche (a version of Guix with more compatibility would be interesting for many) rather than sticking a white label on Fedora and call it something else. I don’t see a lot of value on this over just using Fedora directly, I’m not sure if it’s true that Fedora & Red Hat do not benefit from this… wouldn’t their support agents be able to just start providing support also to EU OS customers if they (both customers and support agents) want? Wouldn’t it make it more interesting for private companies working closely with the government to choose Red Hat as a partner when it comes to enterprise Linux?

I guess we’ll have to see how much they customize it, but in my experience with previous attempts, I’m expecting just a re-skin, just Fedora with different theme. At most, with some extra software preinstalled. I don’t think that’s a threat to Fedora or Red Hat, but rather an opportunity for expansion.

I’m sure Fedora is full of binary blobs and not-so-free software

fedora is staunchly opposed to non-free software in their default distro … that spat a few weeks ago with OBS was related to that AFAIK

unsure about like signed blobs for “security” services but i imagine they’d be very limited, and optional

rather than sticking a white label on Fedora and call it something else

but for what benefit? no matter what’s trying to be achieved, starting with a very full-featured, robust OS that’s widely used is going to serve you very well… not just technically (less work for the same outcome), but for human reasons

there are loads of guides out there for how to fix fedora issues, few for guix… loads of RPMs that are compatible with fedora, and i can only imagine fewer packages for guix

and then if you’re talking about server OSes - and actually workstations too - managing them with tools like ansible etc… fedora is going to have off the shelf solutions

just Fedora with different theme

well, the actual software and configuration i’d argue aren’t the important part - owning the infrastructure is the important part… package mirrors, distribution methods (eg a website), being able to veto or replace certain packages, and the branding (or regulation) that draws people to it… being able to roll out a security patch to every installation without a 3rd party okaying it, for example

The spat with the OBS devs was due to a fedora package maintainer refusing to package OBS with an older library for their own Fedora Flatpak repo, despite the newer library causing severe breakage with OBS (which is why the OBS devs held it back in the flathub release).
Why not use the existing Distros?
As much as I love what they’re doing, tieing an OS to a specific region via name seems like the opposite of Open Source values… Then again, I suppose it could just be forked into a more generalized version
This is specifically for the public sector. The fact that it is open source make it adaptable to different scenarios.
Europe isn’t a region, it’s a brand.
Europe isn’t a brand, it’s a life/style.
See? That’s great branding.

In my opinion, If sovereignty is the goal i think GTK based DE will be safer than QT based DE.

I am aware of The Free QT foundation And its relation to KDE but in a long term there is possibility of things might get complicated if there is change in policy . And even the QT trademark is not totally free. I’m not trying to start DE war, i love both KDE and GNOME.

KDE Free Qt Foundation

The KDE Free Qt Foundation has the purpose of securing the availability of the Qt toolkit

The Qt foundation tried to get fucky once already, and KDE and some other major companies that rely on it were about ready to fork it if they persisted. Qt seemed to calm down after that.

Not a great relationship to be in though, constantly suspecting that your toolkit might do a rugpull at some point if the shareholders demand it. But I think they could pull off a fork if they ever did.

“Made with ❤️ in Brussels by Robert Riemann”

Clicked his URL…

“physicist and computer scientist…passionate about open source and free software, cryptography…”

Whew, almost read crypto"currency"…

"…and peer-to-peer technology such as BitTorrent or Blockchain/Bitcoin.

Goddammit.


✍︎ arscyni.cc: modernity ∝ nature.

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To be fair, he said he’s passionate about peer-to-peer technology and listed Bitcoin as an example. I don’t think that makes him a crypto bro. He probably just appreciates the theory behind it.
hopefully a case of “if i don’t include this keyword i will miss out on tons of shit from stupid people who want into the trend”
Fedora is too much into RedHat, and that’s an American company, it depends on it. You’ll have to go at least Arch, or Debian (which are more community-driven), or Ubuntu or Mint (that are European). But I wouldn’t use anything Redhat-produced for an EU OS.
SUSE/OpenSUSE seems like a much more European option
Τοο bad I don’t like it as a distro… I find it ugly, e.g. the ancient yast gui it has. I’d prefer Debian myself, or a fork of it (if politically necessary).
So you find Gnome & KDE ugly? I’ve never needed to use Yast for any system configuration. Having BTFRS with snapshots as default makes it a great distro.
Yast is a must to configure it without headaches. It’s an eyesore. I also don’t like rpm in general. I tried OpenSuse last year, and I didn’t like the experience of it. Then again, I don’t like Fedora either. And I find Arch unstable. For me, Debian is where it’s at.
Someone who doesn’t use the distro is saying a tool ‘is a must’ when I do use the distro and have never needed it. You do you, but the point of my original comment was that it’s a valid distro for Europeans wanting a non-US option. Doesn’t mean you need to like it or use, but others might.
As I said, I used it last year. I didn’t like it. I WANT gui tools, like yast, but not ones that were designed in the '90s. Linux Mint has the best user experience.