Young folks: Please can we contribute using modern git-based workflow rather than email?
Old farts: No.
👶: OK, but can we at least use modern memory-safe languages?
👴: Also no.
👶: Perhaps we could modernise our language & attitudes to be more inclusive?
👴: LOL! No.
👶: Could we at least consider addressing some long-standing community issues?
👴: What part of "no" are you having trouble understanding?
⏳ ⌛
👴: Why aren't there any new people contributing to our project? Truly a mystery. 🙃
@Edent Please can we use modern build tools like cmake, ninja, etc etc
Hell no. Plain `make` does the job easily for 90% of projects. Rtfm and learn how to use it before you go pushing for the latest flavor of the month.
Joining an existing project requires learning how it already works. You don't get to just jump in and imnediately request every current developer change all of their established procedures to accommodate you. That won't fly, anywhere in the world.
@hyc @soviut @Edent Howard, you've accidentally entered this discussion without understanding that this is a subtoot of a particularly venomous exchange going on in the linux community right now that has nothing to do with makefiles or build scripts.
You .. might have a better reception in this thread if you take a moment to look at the resignations of Hector Marcan and Karol Herbst so that you understand the context well enough to formulate an informed comment.
@hyc @Edent If a project is having trouble attracting new talent, then something IS broken and DOES need fixing. If you are unable to maintain a decent DX in your project, that's an important aspect that's broken.
Just because the "old farts" are used to the hostile environment doesn't mean the environment isn't hostile.
Senior maintainers need to be introspective, identify their negatives and correct them. Otherwise they risk their projects being ignored to death.
@hyc @Edent Nobody said it's retooling to accommodate every newcomer and you know that; don't be disingenuous.
It's about staying reasonably current so that stuff people are learning in school, in bootcamps and online in the last decade is actually applicable. Otherwise all that talent slips by as they go towards more nimble projects.
Keeping a toolchain reasonably up to date is NOT a full time job and you know that too. It isn't even something you need to do; let the new blood who want it handle it for you.
@hyc @Edent what makes Make "plain" and cmake or ninja "flavor of the month", aside from your familiarity bias?
If you are starting software development from scratch, ninja or meson or cmake can make a lot more sense to you than gnu make.
cmake has existed since 2000 (and been used by e.g. kde since 2006), ninja has existed since 2012 - that's 13 years - and meson has existed since 2013; meson/ninja are used for such minor projects as GNOME and Chrome.
perhaps rethink your "month" definition.
Terence Eden
Howard Chu @ Symas
Ian
David Andersen
ティージェーグレェ
Adam Williamson 
TJ 
