FeikeJan 31, 2025

What baffels me is that the Brexit referendum is won by such small margin!

Shouldn't referenda have the explicit consent of at least 50%+1 vote of the electorate, or otherwise fail?!

Turnout: 72% of electorate
Leave: 51.89% (37% of electorate)
Remain: 48.11% (34% of elecorate)

so in my scenario neighter Leave or Remain passed the 50% threshold: referendum undicided.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_United_Kingdom_European_Union_membership_referendum

#Referendum #Brexit #EveryVoteCountsEqual #ProportionalRepresentation

2016 United Kingdom European Union membership referendum - Wikipedia

Show threadPalkyJan 31, 2025
@fjelle ahh, well you see, the English elite are a bunch of cunning stunts. The 'advisory' referendum changed in a milli-second. Cameron was asked 'what now' seconds after the votes were counted. The idiot replied 'the people have spoken'. The right wing press & the BBC TV news turned it into a done deal. Alles klaar?
Show threadFeikeFeb 4, 2025

@Palky well, in the Netherlands, we had a very very very stupid referendum law on the books. The first referendum following this law was: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Dutch_Ukraine%E2%80%93European_Union_Association_Agreement_referendum

The people supporting were split in two kamps: not voting so to not reach the threshold, or voting in favour. The people against just voted against or black. Based on this explanation you might rightly assume that the 'NEE' (against) kamp won.

2016 Dutch Ukraine–European Union Association Agreement referendum - Wikipedia

Show threadPalkyFeb 4, 2025
@fjelle Which leaves me scratching my head, I do like the equivocation in 'statutory non-binding'; seems like a contradiction in terms. "what do learn from this?"...making laws by referendum is a pretty crap way of forming / approving political decision making. Not just because 'Leave Means Leave' squeaked in but because I honestly believe that however long it takes the aim must always be to pass laws that are for the benefit of the majority of all over a substantial (say a generation = 25 years). Collective / collegiate decisions are generally better than those born from confrontation. Here (UK) it all begins with our NFFP electoral system with a good dose of political ignorance / awareness and education thrown in.
Note, I'm not going anywhere near the Ukrani situation. My personal experiences out there and my knowledge of the history of Mittle Europa from the 11th Century on clouds my thinking and reasoning, so I say nothing.
Show threadFeikeFeb 5, 2025

(1/2)
@Palky bear in mind I am not a native English speaker, so, I don't know what is wrong with 'statutory non-binding'.

I don't really understand your post: "Here (UK) it all begins with our *NFFP* electoral system with a good dose of political ignorance / awareness and education thrown in." I could not find the meaning of NFFP, and I think you are criticizing the system rather than prizing it.(Is that correct?)

Show threadFeikeFeb 5, 2025

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@Palky
My point has not much to do with the situation of Ukraine at this moment, but about the crappy referendum the Netherlands held in 2016. Please read the article.

I belief it's better to have no referenda then to have advisory referenda, because advisory referenda are not transparent.

#ProportionalRepresentation #NoAdvisoryReferenda

Show threadPalkyFeb 5, 2025
1/ @fjelle Sorry it's taken so long to reply. Life gets in the way, lol. NFFP = Not Fit For Purpose , e.g. our FPTP, First Past The Post, electoral system means some very skewed results where the elected m.p. patently doesn't represent any majority of his / her constituents. Statutory Non_Binding to a pedant like me is a contradiction. Some thing that is 'statutory' is by it's ver nature absolutely binding, i.e. by statute.
Show threadFeikeFeb 13, 2025

@Palky Oké, I have a problem with most abbreviations, 'cause a forget what the mean. It's the same with persons' names.

The one thing the First Past The Post, which I like to call the relative-majority-rule-system, hás, is that it creates a shorter connection to the constituents. At least that's what I as a mainlander have picket up off it.

How is that in your experience?
Do you agree?

Show threadPalky
@fjelle Just catching up. Your translations are just fine. Even when I was younger and my brain was more flexible I never could get my ears around Dutch. I'm agreeing that 'too many' referenda are mind numbing and eventually don't serve their purpose which is to let the ruling elite know what the 'general public' think / feel about an issue. Always advisory is best I think. Unfortunately as your example shows, that advice is seldom taken. Even better, in my opinion (IMO) would be 'people's assemblies' which might encourage greater participation. Two provisos, i 'empty vessels make the most noise' so their is a danger there & ii . you are right, knowledge of our history and our political evolution in this country is 'piss poor'. I'm an old man now and knowing the English as I do, I won't be around to see any 'radical' change here, neither in policy or political representation.
Feb 14, 2025 at 11:46pmWeb
Show threadFeikeFeb 15, 2025
@Palky with the #bundeswahl ahead, I'm diving into the election system they got... it is very different than the Dutch election, with the arbitrary 5%-threshold: Where in the Netherlands you can vote on whatever party you like and be represented, in Germany you have the choice at the moment for 4 major parties: SPD, CDU, Grüne, and AFD. If one beleeves in Democracy, one's got 3 choices SPD CDU or Grüne
Show threadFeikeFeb 15, 2025
@Palky I identify as an Euro-Federalist, so, I approve of of the Grüne the most, except for the hole anti-nuclear stance of the party
Show threadPalkyFeb 16, 2025
@fjelle re Grüne (UK). They can be bit odd! I get the anti-nuke thing because i) waste disposal is sold on to private enterprise who have a habit of dumping it in the Irish Sea ii) the depleted uranium gets sold on to the arms cartels.
Personally, I think we have plenty of wind, both on & offshore + enough solar (just!) to make a big dent in both the fossil fuel and nuclear dependancies. But you know these capitalist bar stewards, the bottom line profit comes first!
Our Güne are very self-righteous, any deviation from the party line is not tolerated + IMO. many are very well healed (rich) & short on real life experiance. Only my opinion / judgement.