Anon is a winner - sh.itjust.works

Lemmy

Probably an unpopular opinion, but the stories don't hold up under scrutiny, and that's apparent even from the first book. Then again, that's not how one enjoys children's books.

Probably an unpopular opinion

Not really. Even big potter fans acknowledge that the books have giant plotholes

Huge potter fan here (that won’t consume any potter media because JKR is a self-owning ass clown that deserves to watch her empire crumble), and yeah, even well before the Twitter nonsense she started spouting, it wasn’t like a secret or anything that the books weren’t perfect. I still stood on like at midnight for prisoner of Azkaban as a kid, though. But I remember thinking the Voldemort/death eaters thing was a pretty clear WWII/Hitler/Nazi analogy and googling it only to find an interview with her stating it absolutely was not, and people who thought it was were “reading politics” into a children’s story. She’s always been a dumbass, and she’s wrong about her own work. Also, the whole house elf thing was
 Really, really rough to read as a kid. I could never understand why no one was on Hermione’s side, and how no one could see that elves didn’t want to be free because their condition would be that of an outcast, and in a world where only wizard’s were allowed wands, nonhuman humanoids were veru clearly subjugated to the point of delusionality.

Which is to say, yeah, the books got problems, even if you love em. I love those books, because the world felt real, even when it was shitty, it felt real. But there are major problems in them, both in the plothole sense, and in the politics (or lack thereof) of the author shining through the cracks

Also, the whole house elf thing was
 Really, really rough to read as a kid. I could never understand why no one was on Hermione’s side, and how no one could see that elves didn’t want to be free because their condition would be that of an outcast, and in a world where only wizard’s were allowed wands, nonhuman humanoids were veru clearly subjugated to the point of delusionality.

The motivation behind the idea was a good one, the execution of the idea was absolute cringe.

Let me explain. The intention was to highlight that the wizarding world has its own logic, and trying to apply the morality and philosophy of the mundane will end in failure, but Hermonie can’t see that being too smart for her own good in this area


Unfortunately JK picked FUCKING SLAVERY as the way to make this point, because she is a dumbass.

JK hates the Irish? I don’t keep up with her or Harry Potter much, but I know about her twitter meltdowns about trans people – didn’t know she had a whole thing about Irish people tho lol. What a nutjob 😂

Harry Potter has a character called Seamus Finnigan, his whole thing is to act like he’s drunk and blow things up. (It’s a stereotype in England that Irish people make cars into bombs and are literally domestic terrorists)

And if you look into the extended lore, well ya know how Hogwarts bizarrely has a house intended for Dark Wizards (Why is that a thing? I don’t remember “Serial Killing” being a major in Community College) named for the most second evil wizard in history (The first was Grindelwald who
 wanted to stop the Nazis), Salazaar Slytherin.

If you look into the backstory of Salazaar Slytherin, he doesn’t really have any evil deeds to his name, he’s just Irish lol.

Also JK Rowling’s house elves are based on “Brownies”, stories Slave Owners who tell their children about how black people were “Really magic faeries who like working” and will “Disappear forever if you give them nice things”

She’s a disgusting person.

Nobody is on the side of the house elves because Hermione is the pet leftist. Ever watch Downton Abbey? Pretty good show tbh, but if you have, then Tom Felton is the Downton Abbey Hermione. Why is Downton Abbey, of all things, relevant? Because it’s conservative apologia for the way things were, just as HP is conservative apologia; these types of media will often include a zany leftist that they can soften and win over to show how their conservative agenda is good actually. Think about it, HP isn’t left vs right, it’s old conservatism (Dumbledore and his muggle-loving ways) vs batshit insane ultra conservatism (the Death Eaters). If you swap wizarding blood for noble blood, being a wizard for being a noble, etc. it works almost perfectly. Hermione is new nobility that the old nobility doesn’t respect; Harry is from a good pedigree, but was raised by his peasant aunt and uncle and doesn’t know how to act the part, etc etc.

HP and Rowling have always been conservative, it was just that we misread the struggle being portrayed there.

This makes too much sense
She’s a classic neolib. Pretending to be progressive while actually pushing regressive, conservative bullshit.

I got sort of an inverse impression of Downton Abbey. For me, it was about inevitable change, since practically every single truth held by the most conservative characters is at some point bent or entirely overturned, often by themselves. Literally all of the gentry are huge hypocrites.

It also spends a good amount of time creating parallels in the lives of the different classes that, for me, underscored how there was nothing fundamentally special about the aristocracy besides their wealth. Wealth that they never earned and only held onto because a peasant Irish driver who banged their daughter forcibly removed their heads from their assess.

It just doesn’t seek to accomplish all this by making the upper class into Disney villains, since that’s rarely how people actually are. But I never got the impression the show was trying to say this is how things should have or had to have been.

This is a great counterpoint, thanks for taking the time to write this thoughtful response. Imo, Downton paints a rosy picture of the gentry, one of kind, intelligent people who are willing to change with the times if only they understood the need; one where there’s a healthy mutualism between the gentry and those under them (house servants, tenants, etc). Maybe that really is how it was, idk, I’m American and all of our gentry equivalent seem to feel little responsibility to those upon whom they depend.

That’s fair. The rosiness I always attributed to the fact it’s basically a fancy soap opera with a huge budget.

The Crowleys are definitely depicted as kind lords, though the show contrasts them several times with other less humane counterparts. I don’t have the education to rate its historical accuracy, however.

batshit insane ultra conservatism (the Death Eaters)

Death Eaters are revolutionary wizard supremacists.

I searched for her denying the Nazi analogy and only found the opposite

Q: Many of us older readers have noticed over the years similarities between the Death Eaters tactics and the Nazis from the 30s and 40s. Did you use that historical era as a model for Voldemort’s reign and what were the lessons that you hope to impart to the next generation?

It was conscious. I think that if you’re, I think most of us if you were asked to name a very evil regime we would think Nazi Germany. There were parallels in the ideology. I wanted Harry to leave our world and find exactly the same problems in the wizarding world. So you have the intent to impose a hierarchy, you have bigotry, and this notion of purity, which is this great fallacy, but it crops up all over the world. People like to think themselves superior and that if they can pride themselves in nothing else they can pride themselves on perceived purity. So yeah that follows a parallel. It wasn’t really exclusively that. I think you can see in the Ministry even before it’s taken over, there are parallels to regimes we all know and love. [Laughter and applause.] So you ask what lessons, I suppose. The Potter books in general are a prolonged argument for tolerance, a prolonged plea for an end to bigotry, and I think ti’s one of the reasons that some people don’t like the books, but I think that’s it’s a very healthy message to pass on to younger people that you should question authority and you should not assume that the establishment or the press tells you all of the truth.

Source: the-leaky-cauldron.org/
/j-k-rowling-at-carnegie-


J. K. Rowling at Carnegie Hall Reveals Dumbledore is Gay; Neville Marries Hannah Abbott, and Much More - The-Leaky-Cauldron.org

Note: A preliminary transcript is now at the end of this post; please note that there may be some small errors in phrasing, and all questions have been paraphrased to save time; this is not a final transcript, but the accuracy of the questions and answers have been maintained. Reminder: We are routinely deleting the ...read more!

The-Leaky-Cauldron.org
Will check the link a little later (just woke up to pee. Lol). But this was years ago, like around the time PoA came out, or maybe halfbood prince? Either way, it was ab article, not s video. I’ll try to find it later today
It’s a transcript from a Q&A session she did in 2007, around the time of the last book and the OotP film, so a few years after PoA (book and film).
Maybe I’m misremembering, but I promise I didn’t just make that up! I can’t find the article I saw when I was young, but it was, like, openly hostile to the idea of it. Maybe it was someone else and I attributed it to her or something. :/
I’m not saying that she didn’t say it, she said a lot of stuff over the years. I assume she changed her mind, given you said it was around the time of PoA. If I’m not mistaken she had quite some influence on the films and in the last two films you literally see people running around in what look like Nazi uniforms.
It’s not even a plot hole here (though there are a million plot holes in the books). They literally use the truth serum on Barty Crouch Jr and he fesses up.
Yup, and in the same book too.
Yeah, plus iirc after this pretty much everyone except his friends and senior Hogwarts staff is deeply suspicious of Harry and no one wants to believe Voldemort is back. Don’t get me wrong, there’s lots wrong with the series, but I can’t say this is one of them.
She can tell a decent story. But she’s awful at world building beyond the “what would be cool to have” step and the moment she has to consider the ramifications of things she introduced coming up again. Like she can tell a story just fine, but the moment she needs to care about continuity it all goes out the window.

I only like the first three Harry Potter books, when Scabbers goes, so does the book having any credibility it seems.

People don’t like Harry Potter for the story, so when it tries too be serious it falls apart. The part of Harry Potter people enjoy is the whimsy of the wizarding world, that’s it.

If magic interferes and influences electricity, which means it can be measured, analyzed and manipulated as a new form of energy.

To cover up magic on all “fronts” would be impossible by today’s standards. Harry Potter would never be as successful nower days as it was. Simply because the smartphone enters the life’s of humans as essential device very early in life.

Kind of hard to switch off all those thoughts.

Sounds like someone needs to read “Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality”.

Easiest explanation is: there is no electricity in hogwarts and wizards don’t have electricians nor electricity generation, so “electricity doesn’t work in hogwarts”.

If magic was electromagnetic or at least can be measured by effects that it has wizards would have been found during 20th century by general populace.

The easiest explanation is that it’s magic and we’re all muggles and therefore incapable of understanding it.
Something something magichlorians
There is nothing in the books that says that people without magic can’t understand it? I think there was a plot point in 4 or 5 book where harry is on trial for using some spell to scare away dementors, and his neighboor testifies that he really did it and people don’t believe her cause she doesn’t have magic. But that’s only seeing magical creatures, what stops anyone from understanding it exactly? They do repeatable things that return repeatable results, pretty understandable.
the neighbor is a squib, not a muggle
What’s the difference? There is no half magical state, you either can do magic or can’t.

There are multiple mentions that electronics ALLWAYS malfunctions in presence of magic. So that is a new physical law in disguise. An especially interesting one that interacts with certain intelligence.

Sentient Electromagimagnetic field confirmed?

Or that can be a bullshit by uninformed wizards with superiority complex, they have like 5 years of mandatory education. And most don’t interact with anyone but magical people in their enclaves.
And are getting mamed and inbred out of tradition in a school designed to teach them survival skills in a world the muggles already made their own.

There are multiple mentions that electronics ALLWAYS malfunctions in presence of magic.

I don’t think there’s actually any such mention. There’s several mentions about how “muggle technology doesn’t work in the Hogwarts grounds”, but there’s no mention of electronics going haywire when someone is doing magic outside of hogwarts, imo?

Please do correct me if I just remember wrong.

And even just turning out lights is something that is apparently not that simple to do. Aside from Peruvian instant darkness powder — which doesn’t exactly snuff out lights, but covers them in darkness — the only thing to affect lights is Dumbledore’s deluminator. And he’s a magical genius.

My point being even turning off the lights is challenging. Muggle tech may not work in Hogwarts but I don’t recall any mention of magic fucking up tech unless it’s magic specifically meant to fuck up tech. Hogwarts is just like such a protracted and magical place that “muggle tech doesn’t work” but even that’s kind of a silly overarching statement that’s easy to challenge. Plumbing is technically muggle tech. It works. Wouldn’t ball point pens work as well? I imagine those would be pretty highly valued commodities. I think muggle borns could easily flog biros for at least a galleon a piece. Which the muggleborn could then go and exchange for the value of the gold, getting probably hundreds of pound for a galleon.

Endless money glitch.

But yeah at least pens would work I’d argue. Something like calculators is easy to see being fucked by some ambient magic fields, but pens? Nah.

Afaik the camera used in the first movie is analogue
 Holy Shit, I have to read this before I can answer.
How can electricity not work at Hogwarts?

In the Goblet of Fire, Hermione says: All those substitutes for magic Muggles use – electricity, and computers and radar, and all those things – they all go haywire around Hogwarts, there’s too ...

Science Fiction & Fantasy Stack Exchange
Oh youre going by quotes from movies yeah I don’t remember those as well as the books but I think my argument stands and the first comments there seem to corroborate
Significant Digits is an HPMOR sequel-fanfic that toys with these kinds of ideas.
Significant Digits

by Alexander D ‱   A continuation of  HPMOR . ‱   Completed. ‱   Didn't read HPMOR ? ‱  ...

Magic could operate differently from electromagnetism, but still interfere, such as with quantum effects. Inference doesn’t need to go both ways.

I thought about writing a magic setting with fairly hard justification for magic, and in my world, you’d control individual atoms and combine them to get the effects you want. You’d do this by gaining the respect of or instilling fear into atoms so they’d do your bidding. Spoken spells are more like tricks taught to dogs than having any power of their own, and the power derives from the respect or fear the atoms have for the caster. This explains why some wizards/witches are more powerful than others, and why learning isn’t necessarily the best way to get more powerful. The strongest magic users in my world spend a lot of time meditating, meaning communing with the target group of atoms.

The inner workings of atoms is poorly understood, so I think there’s room to insert some form of sentience.

Getting your magical SI units right could help you balance the powers. I like the idea of “Respecto Atomum”

How much respect is needed for no more movement at all (0°K) in 1m^3?

If magic interferes and influences electricity, which means it can be measured, analyzed and manipulated 
that would also be true if it didn’t interact with electricity.

That’s not given. Many magic systems are inherently unexplainable. Say for the example you have a system where a monotheistic god sometimes alters reality when prayed to by a devout follower. There are no measurable or manipulatable components, as the god can respond entirely differently tomorrow. A bunch of stories use a similar explanation (replace monotheistic god with primal forces/strands of fate/eldritch gods).

And honestly, the mystery of an unexplainable magic system is often what makes it magic.

Say for the example you have a system where a monotheistic god sometimes alters reality when prayed to by a devout follower. There are no measurable or manipulatable components, as the god can respond entirely differently tomorrow.

That’s still nowhere near unexplainable enough to be impossible to study. You’ve described the god’s behaviour as “sometimes alters reality when prayed to by a devout follower” - if it’s consistent enough for this statement to make sense, that’s already a lot to study. Is there a correlation between particular prayers and miracles? Are particular mental states helpful? Are various traits make someone more likely to produce a miracle? Are there drugs that affect it? What are the limits to a miracle? Is there patterns in the time intervals between miracles? And so on, and so forth. A world with such a magic system, if you want it to be realistic, should have had an entire history of people studying these and many other things.

And honestly, the mystery of an unexplainable magic system is often what makes it magic.

Eh. It’s sometimes fun to read stories like that (one better have fun, since most stories are like that!), but they’re
 stories about worlds where there isn’t a single human with common sense or intelligence. Not just in the story itself, but in the world’s entire history, because the author didn’t realise that “people trying to seriously explore the laws of their world” is a thing that necessarily happens in realistic worlds, much like it happens in ours.

That’s still nowhere near unexplainable enough to be impossible to study. You’ve described the god’s behaviour as “sometimes alters reality when prayed to by a devout follower” - if it’s consistent enough for this statement to make sense, that’s already a lot to study.

It might be technically studiable in the way you describe, but there’s no requirement for consistency of any kind. My statement was extra-universal, so you can’t assume that it’s discoverable intra-universally. If the result of your study is “this is behaving in completely inconsistent and random ways”, you have technically studied it, but you haven’t measured or analyzed it in any way.

You can just apply your approach to our universe. People have spent centuries attempting to measure and analyze miracles. Would you say that we have analyzed and studied the magic system by which the christian god works?

Eh. It’s sometimes fun to read stories like that (one better have fun, since most stories are like that!), but they’re
 stories about worlds where there isn’t a single human with common sense or intelligence. Not just in the story itself, but in the world’s entire history, because the author didn’t realise that “people trying to seriously explore the laws of their world” is a thing that necessarily happens in realistic worlds, much like it happens in ours.

You’re still making assumptions about the magic system. Take for example the Solphons from “The Dark Forest” - super-smart subatomic machines that change the laws of physics to prevent advances in fundamental physics. Now imagine that they weren’t designed by an alien race, but instead by an extra-universal god, and there was no way to ever arrive at this knowledge (since no instruments for measuring etc. can ever be developed).

Suddenly you have a magic system that is fundamentally unstudiable, no matter the amount of humans with “common sense or intelligence”. No matter what idea you come up with to study the system, I’ll be able to come up with a way to make it fundamentally unstudiable. That’s what’s great about fiction - we’re not limited by the assumptions we have to make in real science.

If magic interferes and influences electricity, which means it can be measured, analyzed and manipulated as a new form of energy.

Unless it does so unpredictably / always exactly the way you don’t want it to. It’s magic after all.

If some wizards of quantum mechanics can write math for
 whatever quantum mechanics is
 I think there could be a way or two, to manipulate magic by science.

HPMOR does a great job of making Harry Potter’s world rational and believable

hpmor.com

Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality | Petunia married a professor, and Harry grew up reading science and science fiction.

I was sold at Efficient Market Hypothesis
I’m sorry I don’t understand
Asset prices reflect all the information that everyone knows about the asset. So wands are not efficiently priced because the wand chooses the owner, but robes are generally fungible so should be priced efficiently
It also Gary Stu’s the hell out of Harry. The only thing I love about that book, and it’s spiritual sequal, is the fact that Hermione is, correctly, in Ravenclaw.
From a quick search, I understand that the book makes Harry flawless, is that it ?
Exactly. Basically a male “Mary Sue” character.
With Ayn Rand overtones
I don’t know this reference either, but will look it up. From the context though I think I understand the gist of it
This is why we invented the Internet
Disagree. My kids love Harry Potter.

To cover up magic on all “fronts” would be impossible by today’s standards. Harry Potter would never be as successful nower days as it was. Simply because the smartphone enters the life’s of humans as essential device very early in life.

Even then, Harry Potter canonically took place in the early 90’s even though it released in the 2000’s

Same with Fantastic Beasts, first one was just a whimsical adventure of Newt, second one tried to be serious and was a steaming pile of đŸ’©