Mastodawn

𝐿𝒶𝓃𝒶 "not yet begun to fight"Nov 30, 2024

Trans women on HRT have, on average, lower testosterone than cis women. Trans women who have had bottom surgery have NO testosterone in their system.

This is why organizations like the IOC had abandoned testosterone testing to keep transsexual women out of sports, because trans women pass that test better than every single one of their cis peers. The only thing trans testing does is keep *cisgender* women out of women's sports.

Cymaphore Nov 30, 2024

@Lana As far as I understood it (in general, I've got only very limited knowledge about that) male puberty in teen years, just like female puberty, results in significant physiological changes, that cannot be fully reverted by HRT in later years. That's also why early hormone treatment for young trans people is important to improve results (to avoid these changes from happening in the first place).

@cymaphore so did you just ignore the scientific data on accident because it destroys your bigoted views on trans people, or on purpose because you're intentionally pushing an anti trans agenda?

@Lana That's not what I meant. I was making an argument in support of not overestimating the impact of testosterone. That's why I referred to the impact of the first puberty, that, by my understanding, is considered to be a significant factor in the distribution of such performance values, as they can be seen in the study you've posted as well.

@cymaphore it's not and it doesn't.

Medea Vanamonde🏳️‍⚧️ ♀Nov 30, 2024

@Lana i’ve never had decent upper body strength

𝐿𝒶𝓃𝒶 "not yet begun to fight"Nov 30, 2024

@MishaVanMollusq same

Medea Vanamonde🏳️‍⚧️ ♀Nov 30, 2024

@Lana and I’ve alway “run like a girl” as well

@MishaVanMollusq also same

Cymaphore Nov 30, 2024

@Lana Where does the study and your image state that exactly? As far as I understood, there was one test where this is kind of true, but not with the overall results... The Diagram in your post has no indication about that, or do I understand something wrong here?

@cymaphore right where it starts that. If you're having trouble understanding the data, may I suggest acknowledging your lack of information is the start and the end of your usefulness here.

@Lana The diagram from the section "Lung Capacity" you posted shows a significant average advantage of the group of Trans Women over the groups of Trans Men and Cis Women in both FEV1 Tests and FVC Tests. The Peak exiratory flow shows similar results.

@Lana So my assumption is that you mean the average underperformance in the Tiffeneau-Test, where Cis Woman show a generally broader distribution of values with the disturbingly bad performance (roughly 60%) of a single trans female athlete significantly impacting the lower boundary, that boundary would otherwise be roughly closer to that of the Cis Men group.

@Lana Generally I didn't find anything supporting your claim in the abstract or the specific test result you posted, that's why I asked if you could give a bit more details how you come to that overall conclusion.

Captain Observant Dec 1, 2024

@Lana Right, that makes sense. If it did confer an advantage you'd surely see a disproportionate amount of trans athletes at competitive levels.. which I'm pretty sure is not happening. Banning them from competing is so ridiculous.

@Captainobservant @Lana there are like 3 none are particularly good.. and then transphobes loosing their shit for coming 74th place or some shit in a event that’s intended to be for everyone anyway

D. G. Marshall Dec 1, 2024

@Lana

Even my RWNJ in-laws were gobsmacked when I told them the latest world championship to ban trans women because of an "unfair physical advantage".

Chess.

D.EJE.D Dec 1, 2024

@Lana actually, the study points to transmen being at disadvantage vs cismen, but trans women do have an advantage over ciswomen. Hormone levels in trans women are clearly a reflection on artificial hormone administration when compared to ciswomen who have a readily available feedback loop from thalamo-ovarian function with a more balanced equilibrium of hormones. It is also reflected in the fat and muscular mass distributions.

D.EJE.D Dec 1, 2024

@Lana but the interesting thing is that median values in respiratory and strength variables of trans women and cismen are equivalent all the while being higher than trans women. So, if anything, this study is almost saying that ciswomen could be at disadvantage against trans women but it is not the case for the trans men vs cismen comparison.

@EduEdu @Lana the fact your calling them “artificial hormones” says you know fuck all about what your talking about, and honestly are probably a transphobe

D.EJE.D Dec 2, 2024

@Li @Lana well… I said “artificial hormonal administration”, which doesn’t refer to the hormone itself. Maybe a better choice of words would be “exogenous” administration of the hormones. What I am trying to say with this is that a cis-person would have endogenous production of the hormone at the end of the “right leaning” loop (therefore GnRH toward Estradiol pathway).

D.EJE.D Dec 2, 2024

@Li @Lana this tends to create a tight feedback loop with more controlled hormone levels. When we exogenously administer the hormone, they are done so in a slowly releasing manner, several factors might influence that these exogenous hormones are higher in this population. This doesn’t mean anything bad. Just that it is the watermark of an exogenous hormone vs an endogenous one. Same thing happens with thyroid hormones when exogenously administered.

D.EJE.D Dec 2, 2024

@Li @Lana the whole point of me mentioning this is that the hormone level comparison between groups just demonstrates the obvious, but it doesn’t necessarily imply anything in the end.

@[email protected] @Lana yes yes we get it your transphobic yes ik there some magic voodoo powers of your body to somehow know hormones come from an external source and just magically disable all the effects of E (such as) how it lowers muscle mass or changes fat distribution .. they suddenly just magically go away when you go into sports we totally have same muscle mass and same fat distribution as cis men yes I am very smart, let’s ignore all documented effects of HRT and just repeat the whole“BUT UNNNATTURALL” shit.

Anything to keep up artificial decode between genders and litterally just segregation .. right?

@Lana also who cares, the guy who naturally has strong muscles has a “biological advantage” to someone who is weaker ones, but no one cares, we only care if it’ in some perceived “gendered” and totally not sexist form

m.c. C-27733 [lily]

Dec 2, 2024

@Lana sorry to be nitpicky , but your wording implies trans men do not outperform cis women , which the data you show contradicts