Riley Testut Nov 24, 2024

Apple’s complete abuse of Notarization is going to be the reason the EC comes down hard on them, and it’s wild how ignorant they are 💀

They just truly don’t give a flying fuck about indie developers
https://mastodon.social/@maczydeco/113527850662678715

Show threadCasey LissNov 24, 2024
@rileytestut They really are playing a game of chicken that they started, and I don’t think the EU is going to be first to flinch.
Show threadJohn GruberNov 26, 2024
@caseyliss @rileytestut Why would Apple not reject vMac for all of these cited reasons? Force the EC to rule, in writing, that the DMA means Apple is not allowed to protect its trademarked named, trademarked logos, and the MacOS license agreement.
Show threadJohn GruberNov 26, 2024

@caseyliss @rileytestut Trial attorneys will often object in court, knowing full well the judge is almost certainly going to overrule their objection, just to assert the objection (and to allow the jury, if it's a jury trial, to know they object).

You don't only object when you think the objection is likely to be upheld.

I think Apple is objecting to vMac (and other such notarization objections) for similar reasons.

Show threadCasey Liss

@gruber @rileytestut as others have said, notarization is clearly a bait-and-switch. It’s not about protecting users against dangerous apps — as Apple claimed — but rather protecting Apple from apps they deem dangerous to themselves.

It’s gross.

Nov 26, 2024 at 8:31pmIvory for iOS
Show threadDan MorenNov 26, 2024
@caseyliss @gruber @rileytestut I guess the alternative would be notarize the app and then sue them for trademark infringement...but I don't know if the fact that they notarized the app would then be used as evidence that Apple tacitly approved? This is a weird situation and feels a little more gray than them trying to stop an app based on functionality. Would they refuse to notarize an app that infringed someone else's IP?
Show threadOwen 🇦🇺Nov 26, 2024
@dmoren @caseyliss @gruber @rileytestut While I agree that notarisation shouldn’t be used this way, Apple could have immediately filed a cease and desist order and sued the developer for trademark infringement and violation of licensing and just delayed any decision on notarisation pending the results of legal action. Apple has the right to defend its trademarks and IP.
Show threadErlendNov 26, 2024

@vanitalo @dmoren @caseyliss @gruber @rileytestut "Apple has the right to defend its trademarks and IP."

Yes, they do — but _explicitly_ not through notarisation. 👇🏻
https://mastodon.social/@Bachus/113551130218151916

Edit: Oh, sorry — I mixed up the different posts I read! You absolutely mentioned that. 🙂

Show threadCasey LissNov 26, 2024
@vanitalo @dmoren @gruber @rileytestut I also think this would have been a reasonable approach.
Show threadDan MorenNov 26, 2024
@caseyliss @vanitalo @gruber @rileytestut That would probably have been a better way to do it, agreed.
Show threadJack WellbornNov 26, 2024
@dmoren @caseyliss @gruber @rileytestut Just looking at my own smattering of Mac emulation apps to see if Apple might be contradicting themselves, Basilisk and Mini vMac aren't notarized, but Sheepshaver appears to be(?). Regardless of whether Apple should be able to deny notarization based on trademark, I do wonder if this app would be notarized under a different name and with no mention of “Mac" or “Macintosh".
Show threadCasey LissNov 26, 2024
@dmoren @gruber @rileytestut It’s easy for me to armchair quarterback, but yes, I think they would notarize something that’s infringing on someone else’s copyright. Notarization is all about danger to the user, not danger to themselves nor other companies.
Show threadDan WolfeNov 26, 2024

@caseyliss @dmoren @gruber @rileytestut

Apple’s own support doc about notarizing apps for alternative app stores (https://developer.apple.com/support/dma-and-apps-in-the-eu) **only** discusses notarization in terms of protecting the user.

> Notarization for iOS and iPadOS apps is a baseline review that applies to all apps, regardless of their distribution channel, focused on platform policies for security and privacy and to maintain device integrity.

Update on apps distributed in the European Union - Support - Apple Developer

Apple is sharing changes to iOS, Safari, and the App Store impacting developers’ apps in the European Union (EU) to comply with the Digital Markets Act (DMA). These changes create new options for developers.

Show threadDavid CohenNov 27, 2024

@caseyliss @dmoren @gruber @rileytestut But Apple are allowed to be dicks when the EU are bigger dicks, according to some.

Monopoly regulation is not meant to have pet favourites. Ideally, journalists shouldn’t have either. Apple shouldn’t be given a pass based on the venue.

Show threadCraig HockenberryNov 26, 2024
@caseyliss @gruber @rileytestut If protecting the brand is at the heart of it, why aren’t they using notarization to protect the distribution of apps on the Mac in the same way?
Show threadAlex RosenbergNov 26, 2024
@chockenberry @caseyliss @gruber @rileytestut One would think that running vMac on Mac hardware is within the spirit of the license terms.
Show threadSeacrets Enthusiast (parody)Nov 27, 2024
@chockenberry @caseyliss @gruber @rileytestut my god, this how many years has this shocking failure to protect the Mac brand name been going on? when “Mac” means “computer” the way “Kleenex” means “tissue”, I hope these emulator developers AND the macOS notarization team are properly ashamed of themselves!