Banned from Egg_irl for calling out a Mod's misuse of the Egg prime directive

https://discuss.online/post/13496387

Banned from Egg_irl for calling out a Mod's misuse of the Egg prime directive - Discuss Online

Was banned from [email protected] [/c/[email protected]] for calling out a Mod’s misuse of the Egg prime directive to criticize trans people for helping out trans women in denial of their trans-ness. They’re denying the validity of signs of being transgender, what the actual fuck, this shit is not okay. Then after banning me that dipshit locks the post so no one else can reply on it. How is this not power-tripping? Modlog history for my account: https://discuss.online/modlog?userId=11993717 [https://discuss.online/modlog?userId=11993717]

Fuck you, hiding behind the Egg prime directive so you can deny trans people the ability to break out of their eggs, you should be ashamed of yourself whoever made you a mod of a trans friendly space should be ashamed of themselves, you’re not even trans you have no right to determine whether we are valid or not. Fuck you hiding behind vague ass ideology. LET TRANS PEOPLE HELP OUT EGGS IN DENIAL! b

Don’t deny the validity of the signs of being trans. Do you really think that it’s cis for a boy to play as girl characters and like to have long hair and dress feminine. Don’t hide behind the egg prime directive either, so many of us aren’t given what we need to break out of denial and end up transitioning much later than we should. I could’ve transitioned 10 years earlier and I would pass much better but I wasn’t given the opportunity because the people who would’ve helped me kept me in denial. Fuck you and people who hide behind this shit to avoid helping trans people. You should be ashamed of yourself

YDI. Bruh, I played as girl characters and liked to have long hair (before I got older and wiser and realized long hair is SUCH a fucking hassle, how did I spend so many years with it?!) and I turned out cis. I played with porcelain dolls, for Christ’s sake. Don’t reinforce gender stereotypes.

Because long hair is worth the hassle 😁
Playing girls in videogames is a sign of being trans now? Hello stereotype.
It is :) Most cis boys don’t enjoy playing as girls, it’s a very eggy thing to do.
Yep, every guy who ever played tomb raider is actually trans.
Did you play it because it was a fun game, or did you play it because you could be a girl in that game? 😏
I’m a cis girl irl, so that’s kinda hard to answer
Pro-tip: Cis people really shouldn’t be giving pointers when it comes to the trans experience.

You’re literally asking for the perspective of cis people who play as the opposing gender in games. You’re not discussing the trans experience.

I’ve played plenty of 3rd person games as male and female. If there’s not an option, I did it because it’s the game I want to play. If there’s an option, such as in an RPG, I sometimes do it because I role play.

I used to do it too to roleplay, and for some people it means nothing, but if you’re doing it all the time or regularly, it’s more likely that might be a sign… I did it all the time, I even drew pictures of myself as a girl, all the signs were there.
Going out of ones way to Do it every time and drawing yourself is an order of magnitude more significant.
Exactly and that’s the context of the situation in the original post I commented in, and the connection that mod was trying to deny.
We’re not discussing that right now. Just about other people playing games as women. In the original situation that got you banned it’s because you kept forcing the egg against the comm rules.
You were banned for hostility and rudeness, and I cannot help agreeing with it.
That mod is likely a cis person telling trans women what it means to be trans and denying their signs of being trans, I have the right to be angry at him.

Why are you suggesting what is cis or trans or anything else for someone else’s brain? It comes off like bullies I might have seen in the 90s. “Oh you like art and fantasy? F**!” “Oh you like cooking, like a woman???” It’s best not to make rules of identity for how people express themselves.

Liking art didn’t make me gay, and liking cooking didn’t make me a woman, despite what someone said about me then.

Sometimes people need tough love and tough love can feel like bullying but it’s still good for them and helps them out of denial. Liking those things doesn’t make you trans, it’s a sign that you likely are trans, don’t twist my words that’s a bad faith argument used by cis people who invalidate the egg movement, which is evil because breaking people’s eggs saves lives. Getting people out of denial and able to accept themselves and transition literally saves people’s lives, because trans people who don’t get the care they need literally feel so bad they want to kill themselves.
There’s a big difference between dictating what others behavior says about them, and creating a welcome and safe environment for people to learn about themselves, and feel comfortable to explore their identity.

YDI, your behavior is incredibly hostile and uncalled for. Also WTF? Claiming people can’t play the girl characters and have long hair while still being cis? What the hell, that sounds so dumb and outdated, people can like whatever the fuck they want without it having a deeper meaning. Who the Fuck do you think you are to try and argue otherwise?

Also it’s a two day ban, take the mod’s advice and cool your head, instead of starting more shit.

Hey wait a minute, you’re that dipshit who misgendered someone and said that Neopronouns aren’t valid. You have zero credibility in trans spaces and you should be banned from all of them, go fuck yourself you bigoted piece of shit.
Best to come with receipts when you say stuff like that about someone.

Here’s a public comment of this asshole denying the validity of nounself pronouns:

discuss.online/post/13103441/11998755

Throughout that thread they refused to use the correct neopronouns of that person (drag/dragself) and constantly criticized drag for it.

Banned from [email protected] for using neopronouns - Discuss Online

Five days ago, drag was banned from [email protected] [/c/[email protected]] [https://lemmy.world/c/politicalmemes] for using neopronouns. A comment explaining drag’s pronouns, and a comment saying “drag” isn’t a nickname, were removed with the reason “trolling”. Drag understands why someone would think that using different pronouns than most people is trolling - transphobia. However, drag is confused how on earth not liking a nickname is a violation of any rules anywhere. [https://imgur.com/ZPBGyYT.png] Context of the removed comments: [https://imgur.com/JfYpK9P.png] Drag would like to pre-empt any further accusations of trolling by asking a question: If drag were a right wing troll, and you chose to freely accept drag’s pronouns, wouldn’t that completely neuter the trolling attempt? Trolling is about trying to make others upset. You don’t have to get upset when someone uses unusual pronouns. If you aren’t transphobic, then it’s impossible to troll you that way. And drag promises: drag wants you to not be transphobic. Drag is not trying to upset anyone. If you do what drag wants you to do, then you get what you want too. This is a non-issue, there’s only a problem if you want there to be. EDIT: DRAG DID NOT TELL ANYBODY TO USE DRAG’S PREFERRED PRONOUNS.

Oh, the dragon thing made quite a stir.
What @[email protected] said is unacceptable and invalidating to many trans people, he should feel ashamed of himself and be banned from trans spaces for it.

I see nothing in their comment disregarding neopronouns or even nounself usage inherently, but instead discussing the inconsistent way the dragon person leveraged them.

Nounself pronouns are hard to write legibly with and drag failed to do so successfully. Why? Because drag is their handle as well. Nounself pronouns are not generally the first name of the speaker, as generally seen in the below links table of examples. (but of course not exhaustive examples)

The challenges many ( not just your target) commented on regarding the nounself pronouns are discussed here, and I think their conclusion is a good one. (Provide alternatives for expediency, and accessibility, as readability is inherently challenging)

nonbinary.wiki/wiki/Nounself_pronouns

That wiki certainly isn’t the bible but it’s reasonably discussing the topic, imo.

I am trying to be respectful to you now:

You seem very angry, across all your interactions here in this thread and around your experiences here. Don’t get me wrong, there’s a lot to be frustrated about in life. I’m not telling you to leave. That’s not my place. But I think you might find a happier experience with a bit of a break, and perhaps heavier curation of who you speak with, and where you hang out. Good luck.

Nounself pronouns - Nonbinary Wiki

(Provide alternatives for expediency, and accessibility, as readability is inherently challenging)

No, people do not owe other people easy alternatives to just respecting the person’s pronouns. I don’t want people using they/them on me because it’s “too hard” to remember she/her, or keep forgetting I’m a girl because of my voice. No compromise, just respect people’s fucking pronouns.

You seem very angry, across all your interactions here in this thread and around your experiences here. Don’t get me wrong, there’s a lot to be frustrated about in life. I’m not telling you to leave. That’s not my place. But I think you might find a happier experience with a bit of a break, and perhaps heavier curation of who you speak with, and where you hang out. Good luck.

You bet I’m fucking angry, if you knew what it was like to be trans you wouldn’t be saying it so casually. I can’t just stop being angry or stop being scared. I’m literally living in a world that hates and rejects me for who I am, and I’m forced to listen to apologia from assholes who just can’t accept the fact that I’m a fucking girl.

The recommendations on nounself language are not my own. Take that issue up with them. No one has a problem with dragons pronouns. They have a problem with their inability to write consistently and use them in a way that is understandable.

You are seeking and choosing these disagreements and friction, and there’s no profit to you. Look at this post, you spent all this time arguing with people and they are consistently disagreeing with you. It’s possible the whole group is disrespecting your concerns, sure, but it’s also possible you are approaching the issue with particular energy that doesn’t translate well in text, and is not winning any battles for you. That’s fine, you don’t need to win votes, they don’t matter. Either way, it’s you experiencing negativity in non essential interactions. You are seeking it out, and then cohabitating with it, rather than discarding it. Even a community you have interest in has put you on the bench for a break.

Edit everyone is guilty of getting sucked in sometimes. I am too. I’m laid up from a car wreck and can’t sleep so I’m spending too much time on here, imo.

For a person with very real and very valid stresses and concerns, you are digging up unnecessary fresh ones to add to the collection with these interactions.

Again I am not telling you to leave, or that you are unwelcome anywhere. That is not my place. I’m only responding to the content you have provided to respond to, most relevantly, the way you have commented in this thread.

You are right, this discussion is going in circles, most people here don’t see or understand why this is wrong and it’s likely blahaj.zone doesn’t either. Otherwise they wouldn’t have allowed him to become a mod now would they?
Well let’s not conflate what I’m right about, and the rest of your comment 😉
I think people have been weirdly authoritarian when it comes to drag’s pronoun - personally don’t get why they can respect others pronouns but not drag’s 🤷‍♀️ (still doesn’t mean because they’re disrespectful about that they’re wrong about everything)
I explained the logical readability concerns, the group generally has no issues, dragon just uses them inconsistently in a way that makes it seem confusing and inauthentic

Gods damn, YDI big time.

You were being a complete asshole. Shit, I’d have banned you permanently, not just temporary. Way over the line of civility.

I'm gonna go against the grain here and say that YDI retroactively for posting such a low-resolution screenshot. -_-

But also y'all, isn't it kinda weird to downvote YDI posts? It's not like they don't belong in this community.

I keep telling people that
People vote with agreement. Ya ain’t gonna change that.

Can you all stop downvoting the OP? Please?

OP, you probably already the stuff that I’m going to say; I’ll share for the sake of others.

Here’s what I believe to be the first part of the comic from the OOP (it seems to have been deleted):

TL;DR of the “Egg Prime Directive”: “the fact that trans people have an unspoken agreement not to tell people who are questioning their gender whether or not they are trans.”

Now here’s my take: YDI.

We humans do the same things for different reasons. And we should not be assuming why someone else does it.

That’s one of the aspects of the egg prime directive, and the mod is simply acknowledging it - that the only person who perhaps knows why that AMAB kid is playing as a girl character is the kid themself. (Or why the AFAB kid is playing as a boy character.)

The other aspect is that, even if the person happens to be trans, you don’t break an egg open from the outside; instead you keep the egg warm and the nest comfy. You don’t deny it, but you don’t confirm it, you make sure that the person feels loved regardless of their identity.

So no, the egg prime directive is not some “vague ass ideology”, as you called it. It has good reasons to exist. Not following it does more harm than good.

Beyond that: yes, you were enforcing gender stereotypes. And yes, you were rude and hostile.

I also think that the 2d “chill your head!” ban was appropriate.

“Am I Trans?” A Roadmap To Figuring Out The Toughest Question

Long before I started questioning my gender, I had this idle fantasy where one of my best lady friends would walk up to me and say, “give it up, you’re not fooling anyone.” If you’d confronted me…

An Injustice!

That mod was denying the validity of the signs of being trans, and they’re not even trans themselves. Does it really seem appropriate to take advice from a cis person about what it really means to be trans?

I know that I reacted strongly but the fact is they really should not be a mod there, they’re hiding behind the Egg prime directive to deny the experiences of real trans women because they think our stories about coming out are forcing gender stereotypes.

Also that mod very clearly overstepped by locking the post so no one else could criticize him for his invalidation of transfem experiences of being eggs and the signs we didn’t see. Is that okay and justified for him to be able to silence people like that?

Please, don’t misgender the mod. They identify as agender, not cis. This should be respected, even if you disagree with them.

The “core” of the advice comes from someone who’s trans, Cassie LaBelle. The mod just applied it to this specific case.

And even if the mod wasn’t from another group of people who, just like you, are also marginalised because of their gender (or lack of)… well, what matters is what is said, not who says it.

I’m cis, mind you. I’m talking about this here because it’s how this comm works: you share something, then others say if they think that you, the mod, both, or neither are right. (And because I have trans friends who often talk about stuff, I hope I can relay their views a wee bit.)

Correct me if I’m wrong, but from your comments it seems that people were actively denying that you were trans, for a long time. What the mod is doing is something else entirely; they are not saying “your experience as a trans woman is invalid!”, they’re saying “everyone has different experiences”. What was a sign for you might not be for someone else, and vice versa.

Also that mod very clearly overstepped by locking the post so no one else could criticize him for his invalidation of transfem experiences of being eggs and the signs we didn’t see. Is that okay and justified for him to be able to silence people like that?

I’d probably do the same - it’s a 3m old post, it had lots of activity, but the new activity is being combative.

If they genuinely wanted to silence you the ban wouldn’t be just two days.

“Am I Trans?” A Roadmap To Figuring Out The Toughest Question

Long before I started questioning my gender, I had this idle fantasy where one of my best lady friends would walk up to me and say, “give it up, you’re not fooling anyone.” If you’d confronted me…

An Injustice!
Does being trans come with being a pretentious wanker or are you just a pretentious wanker that happens to be trans? You and the dragonwanker should dm each other and stop making threads. You’re both absolutely infuckingsufferable.