Ariadne Conill 🐰
we don't need any more secure messaging tools, and we especially don't need insecure messaging tools that masquerade as secure ones (hi Matrix!)
what we need is a decentralized replacement for *insecure* chat.
the reality is that organizers should be using signal. it's a solved problem, and signal solves it in a way that is really difficult for the average person to hurt themselves.
but Discord, Inc. is a much larger threat to free speech for the everyday user. those everyday users need 1 to many broadcast messaging, and they don't particularly *care* about end-to-end encryption.
*should* they care? maybe. it depends on context. if they *should* care, then the answer is that the conversation needs to move to signal.
if they don't need to care, then they go where their community is already. and, increasingly, we have lost the war on community sovereignty to Discord, Inc.
Erin 💽✨@ariadne right.
Matrix and Signal and OMemo and... spend lots of energy on making E2E work for large group chats. It makes things much more complicated and much less reliable
And the reality is that for n>5 or so E2E brings little security benefit because the probability of endpoint compromise just goes up
Matrix and Signal and OMemo and... spend lots of energy on making E2E work for large group chats. It makes things much more complicated and much less reliable
And the reality is that for n>5 or so E2E brings little security benefit because the probability of endpoint compromise just goes up
Kevin Riggle@erincandescent @ariadne or “somebody takes screenshots and drops them publicly”
js@ariadne Well if you want a Discord replacement, that sounds exactly like Matrix? I mean, the UI looks like Discord and everything.
@js claiming Matrix is a discord replacement shows that you don't understand discord at all 🙃
aburka 🫣@ariadne well, I wouldn't mind there being a signal competitor waiting in the wings for when signal gets bought by private equity or shut down by a Trump court
Rajnhildo Ursidino 
@ariadne part of me wants to say IRC but the systems we have are about the opposite of optimised for using IRC as that insecure broadcast chat thing, and IRC itself is centralized #krokodili
Migrated to @@ariadne Yes, please just give me a FLOSS federated Discord clone already ;-;
ティージェーグレェIf only people hadn't maybe solved such problems an already awfully long time ago and released their source?
(because it was so long ago www.silcnet.org now seems to be down:
Or y'know there's https://github.com/shazow/ssh-chat
But maybe users don't want source code?
Maybe they to install Apps in corporate owned walled gardens and not think about how computers work and let the "powers that be" do a rug pull like Charlie Brown?
I used to "fight for the users", but they seem to just want to be used these days.
I don't know why the notion of users leveling up seems to have died off, but abusive dynamics are unequivocally at play and it seems to me that significant SysOps and decent devs are burnt out because people with vested monied interests aren't playing nicely.
Or, maybe you don't just want "distributed" end-to-end encrypted chat, but peer-to-peer end-to-end encrypted chat?
Attempts at that were made too.
Here's slides from a 2005 presentation at @recon on CUTLASS which also, IIRC, provided source code:
https://recon.cx/2005/recon2005/papers/Todd_MacDermid/CUTLASS-Recon-2005.pdf
The Turtle@ariadne that will fuck up every coffee shop in the country.
Azarilhⓥ@ariadne How is Matrix insecure?
Doughnut Lollipop 【記録係】
