The Other Brook

I have a not-hypothetical #IntellectualProperty question for any #Lawyers or well-informed #IAmNotALawyer types who might be out there.

We have a concert poster from a star-studded benefit many years ago. And it's been signed by many of the musicians who performed at it. Now we are donating it to a non-profit that is collecting an archive of materials from the period.

So I took the poster to the art supply store to get a high-quality scan (my flatbed is only 8.5" x 14") and they balked at first because the poster is copyrighted by default. But then a lot of discussion ensued as to whether the signatures make it a derivative work.

In the end we're going with the plan that they'll scan it but not release the scan to me until we get a letter from the org we're donating it to saying we can make one digital copy for our own personal archives. I may slip in a line about making one print as well.

And I'm probably also going to take it to Kinkos and do a self-service scan because when I push the button I assume the liability.

Leaving aside any debates about copyright itself, I'm wondering if the signatures do in fact turn it into a derivative work.

Nov 14, 2024 at 8:51pmWeb
Show threadInspiredNov 14, 2024
@theotherbrook I'm in the IANAL category but here is my best guess. If you needed permission to copy the original poster and the signatures created a derivative work the derivative has its own copyright. Wouldn't you need the permission of all the signers to copy the derivative? It seems like "derivative work" makes your situation worse. There are more people to get permission from. If you are hoping to do this I think you would need to fit into the fair use exemption or forget about it.
Show threadInspiredNov 14, 2024
@theotherbrook Also I don't think getting permission from the other institution affects the permissibility of what you do under copyright law. There may be other reasons to get that permission. The only parties are the one doing the copying (you) and the copyright holder. Either copyright law requires you to get their permission or it does not.
Show threadInspiredNov 14, 2024

@theotherbrook Archival might be fair use and that might mean you don't need the copyright holder's permission but these do not involve the other institution.

Still not a lawyer. Just my understanding. Not advice.

Show threadThe Other BrookNov 14, 2024

@inspired Yeah, ultimately I'm sure I've got a solid fair use defense. Of course no one is ever going to have a problem with it.

The whole thing comes down to the art store's understandable policy of not doing anything they suspect might remotely involve them in copyright issues. So the letter would let them say "not our problem." But that would come up if I brought in my own file and asked them to do a print of it too.

They've scanned it and will hold for 90 days or until I bring in the letter. I then immediately took it to Staples and got the clerk there to scan it for less than 1/10th the cost so I do have a backup now. She didn't say anything about copyright, but then she didn't even know she could scan to TIFF format until I asked.

FWIW, I don't think your theory about the signatures is correct. The person signing an autograph does not hold copyright on the autograph. I suspect that's because signatures are public information.

If it's a derivative work the copyright would be held by the person or organization that collected the signatures. And we don't know who they are so again I think we're in fair use territory.

Anyway, it's very unlikely ever to be an issue. My guess is that if this was put up for auction it might fetch something like $1500. I hope that never happens and it's just appreciated for its historical value.

Show threadThe Other BrookNov 14, 2024
And of course the scan from Staples isn't even exactly lined up. I can fix it but at the expense of cropping a little off the edges.
Show threadInspiredNov 15, 2024
@theotherbrook I'm glad you were able to resolve the problem (aside from the edge crop problem) and I agree it is unlikely to ever be an issue practically. Thanks for the interesting question and your take on it.